Priming the pan (again)

[rhwestfall]

Okay, we have talked about this to death before but I just god done re-reading the TC Manual for my Firestorm Flint. They say (much as all of you have) to fill the pan half full (or half empty). Here is the kicker: They recommend starting the fill by putting powder into the vent hole then tapping the gun to "make some air space" . Seems this is against everything you guys have said :no:. Please, Please help me. :huh:

BobW

 

[roundball]

Okay, we have talked about this to death before but I just god done re-reading the TC Manual for my Firestorm Flint. They say (much as all of you have) to fill the pan half full (or half empty). Here is the kicker: They recommend starting the fill by putting powder into the vent hole then tapping the gun to "make some air space" . Seems this is against everything you guys have said :no:. Please, Please help me. :huh:

BobW

There's probably not a bigger TC fan on the planet than me, but I have a couple problems with their Flintlock recommendations in their owner's manual...the manual for the Hawken/Renegade says to "shake priming powder into the vent hole to lay a fuse" to the main charge, I kid you not!
I totally ignore it of course, :m2c: and would at least start out ignoring that instruction in the Firestorm manual if I owned one.

 

[horkeye]

BobW,

One of the things I have learnt with MLing (perhaps the only thing :hmm is that one must do what works BEST for him/her. In this case there are many options ie you can completely fill the pan, or put the powder towards the outside of the pan (etc etc) 1/3 to 1/2 full or empty; this is what works BEST for me. Experiment a little and see which method gives you a "BANG" and not a "phhhttttt bang".
:results: :m2c:
Jim.
:thumbsup:

 

[Leonredbeard]

BobW,
I find my flinters and my wheellock to be pretty forgiving about how much powder I put into the pan. I read a couple of decades ago to use your pick to punch a hole through the main charge and push some pan powder though the flash hole into the main charge cavity you have just bored with your pick. Push in just enough to have some fine powder in there to light the main charge faster. Don't clog the hole through the metal wall of your barrel, because that will make your flinter real slow. This method makes my flinters as fast as a flinter can be with a real good lock.
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[Tumblernotch]

Purty much the same with me. My forty fires it's fastest when I keep the level of the prime at or just below the vent. I pick it with a wire actually before I prime but you can do it before or after. After will let you push a few grains of FFFFG into the hole. For me, it doesn't make much difference. The main thing is, if you cover the vent, all of the powder in front of it has to burn before the fire can enter the channel. It's just like having a piece of fouling in the way. Then you have the dreaded sound of Phfffffttt! Bang! If you have a vent positioned high above the bottom of the pan, you might get by with fillin' her up. Mine is pretty low. But then you have excess flash and smoke (which I found can and will spook a squirrel or a deer), not to mention higher powder consumption. I'd recommend using the least you can get by with, but you experiment and use what best works for your piece.
:m2c: :results:

 

[reddogge]

I load, prime with 1/2 pan, pick the touchhole, close frizzen, tap a little to level the priming charge, fire. Very fast. The flame will jump through the picked touch hole and ignite quickly.

 

[Darkhorse]

After dealing with a few factory flinters I can understand why they want a fuse from the pan to the powder. Its about the only way those crappy toucholes will go off. The holes are too small, often hidden at the bottom of a screw slot and they have a long channel for the fire to go down before it MAYBE contacts powder. Without a pre laid fuse theres a fat chance the thing will even go off.
But with a proper lock and liner all that manure goes out the window. Here you want a minimum of pan charge. Just enough to catch a spark then flash up and out and right into your perfectly sized liner.
Big big difference between the two.

 

[cayugad]

All I can comment on is the method I use in my T/C Hawkins flintlock and my Lyman Trade Rifle. I followed Roundball's advise after I asked him questions. I bought a small pan charger. I think it drops 3 grains. I load 4f on the outside edge of the pan. I never put powder into the vent liner or even tap the powder out through the vent liner and so far the ignition time with the two rifles is excellent.

 

[Zonie]

The Fire Storm is a Flintlock which is supposed to work with Pyrodex Pellets.
I don't own one, and perhaps an owner will sit me right if this in incorrect.
The Pyrodex Pellets have a shaped Black Powder charge attached to the end of the pellet to provide fast ignition.
This "primer" needs to be lit from the rear (as in an In-Line). It is also not "loose powder" which would find it's way into the "touch hole channel" which connects the barrel with the exterior "vent hole".

If I'm not too far off base with my guess, I can see where Thompson Center would want a loose powder "fuse" in that "touch hole channel" to get a hot flame from the pan, to the rear of the pellet where the black powder is. This would explain why they want the shooter to cram loose powder into the touch hole.

Making one more wild statement (because I've never fired a Fire Storm), I will say that if your main load is loose Black Powder, it will blow back into the touch hole channel and end up right next to the touch hole when you ram the ball, just like it does in a Patent Breech Flintlock rifle.
With a loose Black Powder main charge, IMO you should not cram any pan powder into the touch hole.

 

[freetrapper20]

I too, tap a little 4f into the touch hole and then run my pick in to make sure the path is clear. I prime the pan, close the frizzen, tip my wrist so the priming charge falls up againt the touch hole, open the frizzen and push a bit in, close it and tip the charge back to the outside of the pan and then open and run my pick into the hole. I can feel the priming powder crunch in there as I do it. Got a clear channel with a bit of fine powder in there to help light off. Don't know if it makes that much difference but I don't want to miss the big one either......

 

[rich pierce]

Man, it sure sounds complicated, all these tricks to get a flinter to fire. I wonder how that worked out back in the day for a hunter or woodsrunner or militia man or anybody who did not have time to fool around when it was time to shoot! I started shooting flinters in the 70's. I have stopped even using a priming horn or fine powder in the pan. I load the bore then trickle a little bit of powder into the pan. I shut the pan then go about my business. When it's time to shoot I shoot. I'll use a feather to clear the vent if it gets soggy in there on a really wet day. Yes, I have heard a "klatch" now and then instead of a "bang". But only in wet, wet weather.

At least 90% of original flint longrifles had no liner to remove or mess with. Some were coned on the inside. Most were not. They fought wars this way. There's surprisingly little evidence of priming horns or using 2 grades of powder in the 1700s.

I think it's possible to mess around too much with all this and then the shooter gets it in his head, "do I have this here pan-touchhole-powder trail-etc situation all perfect?" instead of "squeeze, focus, follow through."

 

[Tumblernotch]

You know, I've been giving some thought to just using one powder for both. I'm going to experiment with it. I've been shooting flint rifles for years and have always used FFFFG to prime with. I have primed my Charleville with musket powder and it worked. So why not prime my rifle with FFFG? Keeping a priming horn ready is just an extra hassle that a feller might be able to do away with. I can just see Lewis Wetzel or Simon Kenton running through the woods fiddling with a tiny horn trying to poke a tiny stopper into it with a painted maniac waving a hatchet at them right behind them.
You have inspired me to try something new! (or old)
:thumbsup: :master:

 

[riverrat43]

I made a fairly decent looking, matching powder and priming horn. They look good on the wall hanging with my shooting bag etc. The priming horn is full of FFFFg and I use it ocassionally at the range. For hunting, I just carry one horn and it has FFFg in it. Prime and shoot with the same. I can tell little or no difference in ignition time. I can however, tell a lot of difference in the way FFFFg and FFFg react to the high humidity we have here in Alabama. The non glazed FFFFg gums up a whole lot quicker than the glazed FFFg.

 

[OTHERN]

I AGREE!!!

 

[Stumpkiller]

I used nuttin but FFg in my Bess. That lock could have served as a bear-trap in a survival situation. I'm hoping to be able to do the same with the Chambers "Early Germanic" lock that will be on my Lehigh. There are real advantages to as large a lock as possible on a flinter, exposing as much powder to as many sparks as possible.

There's not much evidence that flinters carried priming powder until the calibers and lock sizes dropped in the early 1800's.

 

[FireMaker]

I just put a little out of my cartridge when I load. Dont realy put much in, dont really pay much attention. Was at the range seeing how frequent it would fire with no prime. Worked more frequent than you would think.

 

[2172]

I have a nice priming horn with 4f powder...I've used it for years. Thanks to discussions here, I've begun to use the same 3f in my pan as I do in my load...works good. At the moment, I'm using the priming horn and 4f at the range, to use it up...when it is done, I won't replace. I've also followed the advice about how full the pan should be, and am cutting back the quantity to just a trickle well below the touch hole...works well, fires quicker than when I put 2 or 3 measures out of the horns measuring device...Hank

 

[Tumblernotch]

I'll combine my replies to riverrat and Stumpkiller in one. RR, I agree. FFFFG does get gummy quicker in damp weather. Old Ordnance Dept. records say that coarser powder also fouls less than finer. And Stumpkiller, you are right about those musket locks doubling as bear traps. My Charleville lock is a monster with a very strong spring. I'm very careful to have my hand out of the way if it is cocked for any reason. Speaking of these big'uns, mine has a very long cock throw and pretty slow lock time. I've not done much tuning on it, but I did do one thing that helped when "aiming" it. On the Charleville if you squeeze it off, it will hang in the half cock notch meaning you have to jerk the trigger and pulling off a bit. I milled my tumbler and made a fly for it. Presto! I can squeeze 'er off now. Vastly improved my aim. I know it's nothing new, but something to remember if others are having the same trouble I was.

 

[sequoia]

An old-timer told me that if you have any powder in or up against the tounchhole the flame has to burn through the powder to get to the main charge. What I do is prime with FFF, close the frizzen and rock the rifle to the right(to the left for leftys)this way as the priming charge burns all the flame is directed toward the open touchole. I normally use FFFF to prime but a recent trek I left the priming horn at home and primed from my main horn and it worked just fine

 

[Zonie]

For years I loaded and primed with 3Fg. Then I read somewhere that 4Fg was soooooooo much better, so I bought a pound of it.

I couldn't tell any difference and thought it was just ol dumb scatt me until I read the results of several studys which concluded there was no measurable difference between 2Fg, 3Fg and 4Fg in the pan.

I will continue to prime the pan with my 4Fg though.
Why???? Because what else am I going to do with 3/4 of a pound of 4F???????? :: :: Besides, if I'm priming the pan with 4F, I'm not wasting the good powder by dumping it in the pan. :: ::