problems at the range (help!)

[Matt85]

today was my first trip to the range to try out some different grain/patch/ball combo's with my pedersoli pennsylvania long rifle (50 cal). this is onley my second trip out with this gun but the first trip was more for effect then accuracy.

in my first trip out i used 65 grains of pyrodex "P" a .015 patch and a .490 ball. had no issues other then after a bunch of shots i had an ignition failure due to fouling build up in the nipple/ignition chamber. (ignition chamber: the small chamber under the nipple, sorry i dont know what its called)

now my second trip was supposed to be about accuracy... this time i started with 60 grains of 2F Schuetzen, 50cal wad, 0.015 patch, and a .490 ball. the first two shots were no problem (3-4" low and 3-4" right at 50 yrds) but the third shot failed to ignite. after multiple caps were popped with no success and the nipple and nipple chamber where cleaned still with no success i ended up pulling the ball and dumping the powder.

at this point i figured id contaminated my powder with the hops i was using between shots, so i ran 4-5 dry patches down and tried again. the first shot fired without problem, but the second shot took 3 caps to fire. both the 3rd and 4th shots took a small amount of powder in the nipple chamber to get them to fire so i gave up and went home.

what the heck is going on? is my schuetzen 2F bad or am i doing something wrong? i took the rifle apart and could find no issues. the rifle had no issues with the pyrodex...

 

[Kentuckywindage]

sounds like the bolster is getting filled up with wet powder residue and blocking the powder from getting under the nipple and or just contaminating it so badly that it won't fire.

 

[necchi]

There are several things that can lead to this,
We need a bit more info,
What kind of caps?

What do you do for storage after cleaning,
Oil?,, Natural lubes?,, BoreButter?,, Hoppes?

What nipple do you have? The Factory nip?,,An after market?

Was the weather very humid?

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

at this point i figured id contaminated my powder with the hops i was using between shots

Sometimes this is not always the best plan, depends on location, how saturated the patch. etc.

I am not familiar with that rifle but if it has one of those teeny tiny flash channels then that can be a problem, especially with swabbing between shots and a heavily saturated cleaning patch.

Without knowing where you live and shoot it can be difficult giving useable advise.

 

[mooman76]

My first guess since you did already fire a few was that when swabbing you are wetting the patch too much or not running a dry patch afterward. You didn't mention if you are swabbing or not. Someone on another board was having that problem and he was swabbing with alcohol and making it too wet. Then when he figured it out started running a dry patch after, problem solved.
I also heard of someone that was having your problem that turned out he had one of those patent breeches and it had accumulated too much crud that was soaking up liquid from his swabbing and would stop firing.

 

[Sinner]

...

at this point i figured id contaminated my powder with the hops i was using between shots, ...

what the heck is going on? is my schuetzen 2F bad or am i doing something wrong? i took the rifle apart and could find no issues. the rifle had no issues with the pyrodex...

I'm not sure what "hops" is, but if it is a type of oil, that is probably your problem. If not, maybe you are wiping with too wet a patch in between.

What are you lubing your patched balls with? Are they too wet? You have several variables to work with. I would think you may want to concentrate on your lubed patches and your process of swabbing in between shots to start with.

 

[Matt85]

There are several things that can lead to this,
We need a bit more info,
What kind of caps?

What do you do for storage after cleaning,
Oil?,, Natural lubes?,, BoreButter?,, Hoppes?

What nipple do you have? The Factory nip?,,An after market?

Was the weather very humid?

caps: i was using #10 remington and #11 CCI magnums.

lube: i lightly use vegetable shortening as lube (but the ignition chamber recieves very little to no lube).

nipple: i use the factory nipple. i checked the nipple and ignition chamber repeatedly and it was clear and clean.

weather: was in the mid 60s with mild humidity (not sure on exact). nothing extreem though, i live in Everett, WA which is about 30 min north of seattle.

as for swabbing between shots: i use a very lightly wetted (barely moist) patch with hops #9 solvent followed by a dry patch. the first couple of shots i did not follow with a dry patch, but i started running it dry after i had problems.

but again, i had this same above method for pyrodex with no issues.

 

[William O.]

It does sound like you are wetting the powder in some way with the Hoppes patches. I prefer an alcohol dampened patch because it dries faster than water but found that when I used anything less than the 91% rubbing alcohol I'd sometimes have to use several caps. You may also want to replace the factory nipple as they aren't known to be the best. Try one of the stainless steel replacements or the AMPCO bronze nipples. Also, I always swab the bore before I load the first time with an alcohol dampened patch to get rid of any left over oil that could foul the powder charge. Storing your rifle muzzle down after cleaning also helps as the tiniest bit of oil will render the powder useless. Hope this helps.

 

[50cal.cliff]

If you wet the barrel too much the crud goes down into the breech and can even back out the nipple. Others have already told you that!

I am going to address the stuck ball. If you have ripped the center out of the ball and that goes all the way through the ball you may have problems. I have been there and done that.

I once dryballed with a .495 ball and a .18 patch, in my 50 cal.. What's the problem you ask? The problem is normally I use a .490 ball and a .18 patch.

I was trying a very tight load similar too what the competition shooters use when they shoot just to see how it would do as for accuracy. Some of the competition shooters actually drive the load down with a mallet. This load went down with out driving it but.It was extremly hard to push down the barrel and I did bounce the rod off of it several times to make sure it was seated. That is what clued me in originally that I had dryballed. When I noticed the rod went deeper than it should have. :hmm:

I used a conventional puller in the field and ripped out the center. I went back to my shop and made a puller with a larger screw. I managed to screw it into the ball and this time unkowninglly it screwed through the ball. This time the ball failed to move again and I ripped the center out the ball with the larger puller.

This creates a situation where you won't be able to move the ball with air pressure or a CO2 discharger, or a grease gun. I know because I tried all these remedies without knowing the center was completely ripped out of the ball. This I didn't know for sure till I finally got the ball out. However I did suspect once I had pumped the barrel full of grease and it failed to move the ball!:redface: :redface: :redface:

I think if I had put a few grains of powder under the nipple and reseated the ball originally it may have blown it out.

It ended up this greasy mess had to be remedied by the one thing that I DID NOT want to do! I had to pull the drum and the breech plug and I drove the ball out with a dowel and a mallet!

I have since learned a lesson I now have a CO2 discharger that I carry anytime I am out with the rifle. I will try this first as if you are hunting and do a dryball it makes only a minimum of noise. Then secondly I would try the powder under the nipple trick. The ball puller to me is a last resort.

Just remember no matter what the remedy follow all safety procedures and maintain barrel direction safety!

 

[rafterob]

Not yet mentioned is the method that is used to swab between shots. To avoid getting crud down into the chamber and into the fire channel do not use an up and down stroke of the swabbing patch. Run the damp patch to the bottom of the barrel and let it set 5 seconds or so to let the moisture work on the fouling. Remove the rod and patch without working it up and down. You can flip the patch over and repeat, followed in the same manner with a dry patch. If using an up and down motion, the pressure created on that down stroke can blow fouling crud into the fire channel. The 2f may create more fouling than the Pyrodex and that would explain your differing results. It could be the "hops" your using is not the best thing for between shot swabbing. Alcohol, windex or spit seem to be the most recommended items here. Now I use hops when I make beer, but have yet to try it in my rifle. Might make good wadding for my shotgun :hmm:

 

[cynthialee]

Hops as a wad. lol
(it might work if you have a good solid flower bud)

Just made me wonder if a wad of wild grass would work in a pinch.

 

[necchi]

Gotta jump on board with the others that it could be yer swabbing technique. The Schuetzen fouls differently than the Pyro.
When you do the swab, once down and back it enough, no extra scrubbing motion needed, and as mentioned I use a spit damp patch.

#10 caps are for pistol and the #11's are for rifle, your rifle nipple is made for #11 caps.
(10's are smaller and fit a different nipple)

I'd change the nipple out to a RedHot or HotShot aftermarket nipple, none of the rifle makers spend money on good nipples. The shape of the internal neck and the size of the hole on aftermarket nipp's are much better than factory,,,

p.s.,, I wish we had your weather! We're stuck in that darn humid/heat wave hitting the central plains!!
It's Hurt`ya hot outside!!

 

[Old Salt]

Just something to think about, if there is any moisture at all in the barrel, from whatever source, when you push a patched ball down the barrel, where does all that pressurized air and moisture go? It's going into your powder and seeks a path to the nipple or touch hole. It won't take much to foul things up.

I gave up wiping between shots a long time ago and my ignition reliability went up significantly. Try a spit patch when you load the ball.

 

[Matt85]

ill head to the range again this weekend and try out all the advice yall have given me. i will get some rubbing alchohol and start running swabs a little more carefully (one pass, no scrubbing).

ive also learned more about my rifle in that there is a small powder chamber which my rod cant get to. i suspect this chamber is getting clogged with residue. to solve this i will bring a can of computor duster (i can blast the crud out without leaving moisture). the computor duster is hardly PC but i dont have any thing else that can solve this problem at the moment.

 

[rafterob]

One of the shooters that came to our last silhouette shoot is well regarded for his expertise and winning record. He shared his lube secret with a few of us. Dawn dishwashing liquid in water. "I can shoot all day and never swab between shots". This was on a day where I was having to swab every 5th shot. Just might give it a try, seems a good option for range work.

 

[necchi]

ive also learned more about my rifle in that there is a small powder chamber

Glad the picture helped.
Ya know, theres a little trick while loading for that little chamber too.
Because of the angles of that chamber it's tuff for powder to get in there.

When you drop the charge (and before the patched ball), hold the rifle up and smack the side of the stock near that chamber with your hand a few times.
That helps settle the charge into that channel and in closer proximity to the nipple/cap flash, :wink:

 

[Old Salt]

If my bore is clean when I start the day, I use spit patches and shoot 30-40 shots without any problems.

:wink: I might slobber a patch a bit more to keep loading easy.

I very rarely swab the bore during a shoot.

Each shooter will find what works for them sooner or later. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Matt85]

UPDATE: well i went to the range today to try out the things said above...

i got off two shots before my gun ceased to fire, the third shot ended up needing to be pulled. after i pulled the ball i cleaned the gun thoroughly and proceeded to fire 3 more shots this time using Schuetzen 3F instead of 2F. the 4th shot needed to be pulled.

the first time around i didnt use any cleaning solution inbetween shots, just a dry patch and it was a quick "in and out" no scrubbing.

the second time around i used denatured alchohol followed by a dry patch. (again just "in and out")

unless you guy have some more ideas the onley last two options i have is to replace the nipple and if that doesnt work send the gun back to dixiegunworks for a refund/exchange.

 

[mooman76]

Try replacing the nipple like you said and email Dixie and see if they have any insight. Have you tried sticking a nipple pick in the nipple to open up a channel when it won't fire?

 

[Matt85]

i sent an email to dixie after i posted my update.

yes, i tried a nipple pick, a pipe cleaner, needle nose tweezers, and even computor duster (canned air). if the vent is getting clogged its getting clogged in an area you cant get to with conventional tools. also, if a clogged vent is the problem then its getting clogged way too fast! (every 2-3 shots)