Proof Hawken made a flint

[TNTraveler]

According to the bottom pic it was converted to a percussion, pic of book it comes from, Gun is in the NRA museum

 

[TDM]

Yes, in fact, they did.

 

[Phil Coffins]

The W. Hawken is one of a number of Hawkens that built rifles. When most of us refer to a Hawken rifle we are talking about plains or mountain rifles. Hawken can also be shotguns or pistols. What is the point of blending them all together?

 

[ronaldrothb49]

According to the bottom pic it was converted to a percussion, pic of book it comes from, Gun is in the NRA museum

William Hawken made rifles in Maryland. Other than being the younger brother of Jacob and Sameul he had nothing to do with J & S Hawken

 

[DuncNZ]

There is still some doubt that J or S Hawken made any of the famous St Louis Plains Rifles in flintlock , there is at least one full stock flintlock rifle , which looks like many would call a Kentucky rifle , made by S Hawken , probably made in Hagerstown Maryland or Xenia Ohio , The above gun was made by William Hawken , the younger brother of Jake and Sam , he stayed in the East while his brothers went west , and in reality is not what most people think of when the name Hawken is mentioned . The Hawken Bros made both half stock and full stock rifles in St Louis , the full stock ones were cheaper .

 

[TNTraveler]

William Hawken made rifles in Maryland. Other than being the younger brother of Jacob and Sameul he had nothing to do with J & S Hawken

It shows that there were full stock flintlock Hawken style rifles made, by a brother of the Hawken brothers from Missouri, so people that say a flintlock Hawken rifle wasn't made and that its not PC, this proves they are wrong, if you want to argue over which Hawken made it that's up to you, for those of us that want to use a full stock flintlock around thread counters here is the proof they were made, that's all that matters, and given the time frame the JS Hawken brothers started making and when percussion guns came into being, there is no way that flints weren't made by them, my .02 you can argue with yourself because your opinion doesn't trump facts

 

[Bushfire]

Hawken is a brand (name) not a rifle.

 

[52Bore]

Christian Hawken (father of Jake, Sam, William, etc.) and his brothers immigrated from Switzerland. Family total was about 15 gunmakers, Pennsylvania longrifles styles..
Jake & Sam made a Special 69cal Hawken for Wm Ashley on his 2nd trip westward - assumed to be a flint.
1/2 stock rifles (British) started 40 years before J&S Hawken in 1825.

 

[bud in pa]

From what I remember reading about the Hawken family, the original spelling was Hochen.

 

[bptactical]

From what I remember reading about the Hawken family, the original spelling was Hochen.

I believe this to be correct, they were Swiss IIRC.
The Germanic name morphed into its popular form as the family became more “American”.
I think I can substantiate this with genealogy that my brother in law has collected on our family for years.
My grandmothers maiden name was “Hawkins” and she hailed from Missouri SE of St Louis, born in 1892.
A couple of generations prior to her the name “Hawkens” shows up in the the tree. He was able to trace her family to Germany in the far past and the name “Hokkens” appears.
We haven’t been able to connect any dots to the riflebuilder Hawken clan but given the proximity of locations I would not be surprised if there was a link.

 

[tenngun]

It shows that there were full stock flintlock Hawken style rifles made, by a brother of the Hawken brothers from Missouri, so people that say a flintlock Hawken rifle wasn't made and that its not PC, this proves they are wrong, if you want to argue over which Hawken made it that's up to you, for those of us that want to use a full stock flintlock around thread counters here is the proof they were made, that's all that matters, and given the time frame the JS Hawken brothers started making and when percussion guns came into being, there is no way that flints weren't made by them, my .02 you can argue with yourself because your opinion doesn't trump facts

One of those touchy is it blue or green questions
Both Jacob and Sam were making rifles before percussion caps were invented. Jacob would be making Maryland and ohio guns before coming to St Louis.
It’s undeniable that Hawkens made flint rifles. They may have made flint guns in Saint Louis, as Jacob opened shop just a few years after the invention.
Style changes were happening at this time, and they got to supply some guns to the western trade. And he was making large bore, half and full stock guns for the various forms of Rocky Mountain Fur. Later Sam’s guns, after Jacobs death were a go to gun during the plainsman period up to the WBTS
All guns, including their dads SMR made before cr 1820 were flint, and all guns they made were Hawken rifles, Fowling pieces, pistols ect.
Yet we don’t call the dainty small bore silver mounted Ohio style guns Hawken rifles. We reserve that name for the mighty bull thrower.
Sorry, come again. All Hawkens are Hawkens but only HAWKENS are HAWkENS
The brothers H were not making large bore guns for the west in flint. But they weren’t building fowlers or Ohio style guns to go west either.
Maybe a flint Ohio style rifle was the thirty caliber Hawken that Jeremiah Johnson started with

 

[david w]

I had a Hawken, aka, the plains rifle, and currently own a full stock in flint. I really don't care too much. I know W. Hawken never left Maryland.

 

[Trot]

It is a very well-known fact that members of the Hawken family made flint rifles and I don't think it was ever disputed. The only questions I have ever seen are, were the fully developed plains style rifles made by the Hawkens ever made in flint, or in full stock.

 

[david w]

It is a very well-known fact that members of the Hawken family made flint rifles and I don't think it was ever disputed. The only questions I have ever seen are, were the fully developed plains style rifles made by the Hawkens ever made in flint, or in full stock.

As far as I'm aware, the Hawken brothers that set up shop in St. Louis, Mo., only made half stock percussion that was strong enough to withstand the rigors of the plains, indians, and griz. That was the era that percussion was new, and sought after due to more reliability.

 

[Trot]

As far as I'm aware, the Hawken brothers that set up shop in St. Louis, Mo., only made half stock percussion that was strong enough to withstand the rigors of the plains, indians, and griz. That was the era that percussion was new, and sought after due to more reliability.

Yep, just addressing the fact that it is well known and not disputed that there were earlier flintlock guns made by the Hawken family.

 

[Jim K]

I believe this to be correct, they were Swiss IIRC.
The Germanic name morphed into its popular form as the family became more “American”.
I think I can substantiate this with genealogy that my brother in law has collected on our family for years.
My grandmothers maiden name was “Hawkins” and she hailed from Missouri SE of St Louis, born in 1892.
A couple of generations prior to her the name “Hawkens” shows up in the the tree. He was able to trace her family to Germany in the far past and the name “Hokkens” appears.
We haven’t been able to connect any dots to the riflebuilder Hawken clan but given the proximity of locations I would not be surprised if there was a link.

I see llRC on here a lot. Can you tell me what that stands for? Never been able to figure that one out. Thank you!

 

[Coldfingers]

If I Remeber Correctly

 

[Jim K]

If I Remeber Correctly

Thank you!! Never could figure that one out.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

It shows that there were full stock flintlock Hawken style rifles made, by a brother of the Hawken brothers from Missouri, so people that say a flintlock Hawken rifle wasn't made and that its not PC, this proves they are wrong, if you want to argue over which Hawken made it that's up to you, for those of us that want to use a full stock flintlock around thread counters here is the proof they were made, that's all that matters, and given the time frame the JS Hawken brothers started making and when percussion guns came into being, there is no way that flints weren't made by them, my .02 you can argue with yourself because your opinion doesn't trump facts

The question isn't whether the Hawken family made flintlocks, but rather if Sam and Jake made flintlock plains and mountain rifles. And since you are rather new here, you likely didn't know that. No need to get snippy about it.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

It shows that there were full stock flintlock Hawken style rifles made, by a brother of the Hawken brothers from Missouri, so people that say a flintlock Hawken rifle wasn't made and that its not PC, this proves they are wrong, if you want to argue over which Hawken made it that's up to you, for those of us that want to use a full stock flintlock around thread counters here is the proof they were made, that's all that matters, and given the time frame the JS Hawken brothers started making and when percussion guns came into being, there is no way that flints weren't made by them, my .02 you can argue with yourself because your opinion doesn't trump facts

What it shows is a rifle made by William Hawken in the style of rifles made around Hagerstown, Maryland. There are rifles made by Christian Hawken during the golden age in the style of Hagerstown Maryland. Christian's father having come here from Switzerland probably made Jaeger style rifles. I don't think anyone disputes that the members of the Hawken family made flintlocks, but that in no way proves that the firm J & S Hawken made them.