Proper amount of BP

[nolucklarry]

OK, New to the sport. I have done lots of reading and listening on here (and elswhere). I have picked up a tremendous amount of info. Great site, thanks to everyone.

My question is, I'll be shooting real BP not a sub. Do I need to actually weigh the powder or can I use one of those adjustable tubes to measure my powder. Confused because everyone says to use volume for subs and weight for BP. Doesn't the tubes use volume even though you set them for say 90 gr.? Some one clear this up for me. Want to make sure I have ALL my info correct before shooting my first time. Thanks

 

[davy]

OK, New to the sport. I have done lots of reading and listening on here (and elswhere). I have picked up a tremendous amount of info. Great site, thanks to everyone.

My question is, I'll be shooting real BP not a sub. Do I need to actually weigh the powder or can I use one of those adjustable tubes to measure my powder. Confused because everyone says to use volume for subs and weight for BP. Doesn't the tubes use volume even though you set them for say 90 gr.? Some one clear this up for me. Want to make sure I have ALL my info correct before shooting my first time. Thanks

Just my opinion .. but I would quit worryin about it, and just use the adjustable powder measure you have! Thats what I have and use, and it works just fine! :thumbsup:

Davy

 

[Runner]

The numbers on the tubes are supposed to be the weight of the real black they hold.

 

[silverfox]

Good Question? Now I will get jumped on but I would think that only the bench or stump shooters might weight their loads. The correct method is measure by volume for subsitutes or real BP.
Yes you can and should use the adjustable tube type volume measures or any type of measure set for a specific volume. It can be anything that will hold the amount of powder you require for your gun.
If this is your first time you will need the adjustable measure as you will find you will need to try several different amounts of powder until you find what your rifle likes and is the most accurate in it. Them you can make a permanent measure to that load to carry with you. Adjustable measures tend to get moved to different setting when you have several rifles so check the setting each time you use one.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Good Question? Now I will get jumped on but I would think that only the bench or stump shooters might weight their loads. The correct method is measure by volume for subsitutes or real BP.
Yes you can and should use the adjustable tube type volume measures or any type of measure set for a specific volume. It can be anything that will hold the amount of powder you require for your gun.
If this is your first time you will need the adjustable measure as you will find you will need to try several different amounts of powder until you find what your rifle likes and is the most accurate in it. Them you can make a permanent measure to that load to carry with you. Adjustable measures tend to get moved to different setting when you have several rifles so check the setting each time you use one.
Fox :thumbsup:

Agree...BP measures are based upon volume measurements, not weight...and BP subs are manufactured to take up the same volume as BP.

ie: If I use a 100grn setting for Goex 2F, then decide to measure a 100grn charge of Pyrodex-RS (2F), I would use the same setting...the Pyrodex-RS is manufactured so 100grns of it's volume compares energy wise to 100grns volume of Goex 2F.

 

[Berk]

Just curious has anyone actualy put the volume measuere to the test and weight the charge it throws Is it by volume for what granulation of powder???

Berk

 

There will be some variation due to granulation size but bear in mind that black powder and the subs are very bulky and therefore quite forgiving within the small variations we are discussing.

Shot to shot consistancy is more important than exact weight/measure in these situations.

 

[Walks with fire]

I don't want to cause anyone to overcharge--but, bp is supposed to be measured by volume. If you bump it and it settles a little then there is room for more powder in the measure. Now, I have been told that once you find the volume that works best for your rifle; weigh it on a powder scale and make all your speed loaders the same weight. Weigh your bullets too. Do your loading the same way every time. Better accuracy, win more matches and have more fun.

 

[musketman]

Just curious has anyone actualy put the volume measuere to the test and weight the charge it throws Is it by volume for what granulation of powder???

Berk

I believe powder measurers are calibrated to FFg granulation...

 

[kenneth strickland]

I use a T/C brass measure with scored rings and no numbers. The increase in each step is supposed to increase by 10 grains. I weighed on a powder scale and the weight for FFG Goex was VERY close. FFFG was about 3 or 4 grains more. Pretty hard to tell any difference with buckhorn sights.

 

[Bald Baron]

Did about the same thing here. I use tubes on the flask, 70,80 and 90 grains. I brought them to the office and weighted on electronic scales, it was all real close. Putting ones finger over the tube then filling it from the flask, there is a slight difference in each load. Close enough, I work for the government.

 

[Landngroove]

I find the Thompson Center, "U-View" powder measure, is very handy. It measures your powder charge, by volume, in 5 grain increments, and you can see the powder in the measure.

 

[paulvallandigham]

by all means, own a powder scale ! And check those volume loads on the scale. Do lots of them to see what technique you can use to throw the most CONSISTENT load. Then shoot them over a chrongraph to find out what real velocity you are getting as opposed to some table you find here or there. What you will find is that most of the adjustable volume measurers are very accurate, but not as accurate as if you weigh each load out on that powder scale. You can throw consistent loads, but you may have to set your adjustable measure " between the lines" to get the load you want. And you will find that black powder is very forgiving, if you are within a couple of grains by weight. The difference is not going to affect your target shooting out to 100 yds, or your hunting loads.

If you go to bench shooting slug guns, you will join the ranks of those people who weigh everything, because it does make a difference at 200, 300, and 500 yds.

Shooting percussion, you will find greater variations in velocity can be cause by how much pressure you put on the ball when you load it, than will be caused by a slight variation in powder charges.

 

[strongarm]

Yes, I have weighed loads and it's rather tricky because from can to can or lot to lot or from bp manufacturer to another the weights vary. AND they vary for a variety of reasons, like different lots and humidity as well as trying a new can or a can that is almost empty.

Measure by volume and when you get down to 1/4 of a can, mix it into a new can and keep on shooting. This is the safest method you can do and the most accurate for general purpose use.

 

[Sully]

Just use the adjustable measure to find the load that you or your rifle likes. BP is measured by Volume not weight. I use half the weight of the ball in powder ( 230 gr ball= 115 gr (by Volume) powder)

 

[paulvallandigham]

Sully: In a .54 cal. rifle, your load is about twice as much as I would recommend for target work starting out. I would start at 60 grains of 2F, and try 3F if I had it to see if it gave better groups. 115 grains of powder puts this gun up there with some of the most powerful and kicking Sharps cartridge guns made! Who needs that? Once you get that ball moving it is not going to stop on any thin skinned animal you shoot. I know one guy who shoots 27.5 grains of powder in his .54 for 25 yd. target work. He says, " I am only shooting paper. All the ball has to do is go fast enough to break through the paper !!" That small charge lets him use the same sight setting and hold as he uses with a larger charge to shoot at 100 yds. Its an idea.

 

[Sully]

paulvallandigham ,I get my best groups (so far) with 85 grains of FFFG but for hunting I bump up the charge a little. 115 gr of FFFG is my hunting load and that is what I prefer to shoot,most of the time and out of my Hawken rifle the recoil is no bad at all, the rifle weighs just a hair under 11 pounds.I agree 27 grains of powder would punch holes in paper but I prefer to practice my shooting with what I'll be using.Why would I want the ball to stop inside any game animal ? To use up all the energy ? Come on now.... I will take an exit wound every time.Two holes bleeding = good

 

[Stumpkiller]

Just curious has anyone actualy put the volume measuere to the test and weight the charge it throws Is it by volume for what granulation of powder???

Berk

I test all mine and only have a few calibrated ones that come close. The closest to accurate is a brass one from T/C that "clicks" between 50 and 120 grains in 10 gr increments. It's 4% high. Just behind that is a T/C adjustable (with internal cap safe & sliding funnel) that throws 6% less than the scale with FFg.

The worst one I own is an adjustable measure marked "Italy" that throws 122 gr of FFg when it shows "100" on the slide! The "70" mark throws 86 gr. It's even worse with 3F!

I mostly use fixed measures that I check with an RCBS 5-10 beam scale. Once I find a load the gun likes I make a fixed measure for it and hook it to the horn strap. The good news is that black powder is very forgiving. As with any shooting, consistancy is important, and as long as you use the same measure and technique time-to-time it won't matter. :winking:

 

[jdixon]

A good rule of thumb on powder charges in rifles that I first heard several years ago and have followed since - 3 grains of powder for every 7 grains of weight in your projectile. Using this formula - a 230 gr. round ball requires 98.5 grains of powder charge.

 

[Sully]

The only "rules" that I have heard of are:
1 1/2 X the caliber ie 1 1/2 X 54 = 81 grains

1/2 the weight of the ball

I am sure their are others also.