Proper Cleaning/ Your thoughts

[bullofthewoods]

Hello
I am new to this forum as of Monday. So far I am finding a wealth of knowledge to be available. I have a 50 cal, Traditions Shenandoah, sidelock rifle. I really enjoy shooting it, I don't enjoy cleaning it (strip down cleaning that is.) There is a lot of information out there on cleaning. What I do currently is a water clean up, followed by a thourough drying and lube with Wonder lube. Does anybody have any suggestions? What does everybody else do? Do I need to strip it down and clean it really good after every shooting session or occassionally or what is the best idea for that. What are some products you like to use.

Thanks for the help

Bull
:thumbsup:

I shoot 3F pyrodex with the PRB.

 

[roundball]

Hello
I am new to this forum as of Monday. So far I am finding a wealth of knowledge to be available. I have a 50 cal, Traditions Shenandoah, sidelock rifle. I really enjoy shooting it, I don't enjoy cleaning it (strip down cleaning that is.) There is a lot of information out there on cleaning. What I do currently is a water clean up, followed by a thourough drying and lube with Wonder lube. Does anybody have any suggestions? What does everybody else do? Do I need to strip it down and clean it really good after every shooting session or occassionally or what is the best idea for that. What are some products you like to use.

Thanks for the help

Bull
:thumbsup:

I shoot 3F pyrodex with the PRB.

My personal belief and practice is a complete thorough cleaning after every use...one shot, 100 shots, doesn't matter...that's just me

 

[Landngroove]

Welcome to the forum. If you care about your guns you will clean them after every shooting session. Black powder, Pyrodex, and the black powder substitutes, are corrosive. I break down my muzzleloaders, and put the barrel in a bucket of hot soapy water, use a bronze brush, and patches on a cleaning jag, to pump water thru the barrel. This will ensure you clean the flash channel also. I also remove the nipple, or touchole liner, depending on percussion, or flint, and scrub that area with an old toothbrush. After drying with patches, swab the barrel with your favorite lube/rust preventer. After doing a routine like this, and I'm sure you will add your own variations, it will become second nature to you, and will not take all that long. Actually, I take pleasure in cleaning my guns after use. To make them look good again, and to perform, when I next use them.

 

[rice1817]

Although it is definitely best to clean it after each use, I would not worry too much about getting it spanking clean. From what I understand is that after the salts in the spent residue are dissolved, the remaining black fouling is mostly harmless graphite. I use the water method too, and when I figure I got it "clean enough" I will swab the bore with home-made bore butter and hang her up till next time. Now if next time is going to be next fall, you might want to be a little more thorough, but for me next time is usually next weekend, and I have had no problems with rust or pitting.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Been doing what you are doing for many years.
Never had a problem yet.

 

[netoleon]

You've just embarked on a journey of excitement, intellectual stimulation, satisfaction......and perpetual cleaning. Unfortunately, you really want to clean your ML even if you just take one shot. Neutralize the corrosive elements, or suffer the consequences.

Sounds like you got the basic technique, and you'll get tons of advice ( which you can also search for on this forum ). My one piece of advice, as a fellow Wonder Lube user, is don't use that for extended protection in storage. It's got a tiny amount of water in it, but it's enough to make it less effective than synthetic oils, and similar "products", at long term rust prevention. If you never leave it for more than a week or so, it'll be fine. For storage exceeding that, try swabbing the bore with a high grade gun oil/grease or pure silicone lube. Welcome to your new joys....and chores!

 

[roundball]

"...I would not worry too much about getting it spanking clean..."

You don't have to...they're not your rifles
:rotf:
IMO, thoroughness of cleaning is one of those personal things...I clean/dry/lube every square inch of a rifle before I put it up...never have to worry about getting busy or distracted and forget about it...I put them away showroom ready as if I won't touch them again for years...to each their own
:thumbsup:

 

[Legionair]

Got to agree with Roundall and Landngroove, I do a complete and thouruogh cleaning after every shooting session.

For me, It's also an enjoyable test and learning event. I like intricate workings, so I learn a little more and get more comfortable with them everytime.

Got burnt once not doing a thorough cleaning, and used tons of Kroil trying to get the workings freed up in my '58 Rem.

Legion

 

Dont forget the stock.Mine gets alot of crud on the stock by the nipple.After I shoot ,my face needs a good washing.I come home lookin like a coal miner from all the smoke :haha:

 

[Swampman]

Any firearms expert will tell you that nothing ruins more rifles than cleaning. I completely agree with them.

 

[marwat06]

Bull,

Welcome. I pretty new to M/L also. One thing you might try is running a patch down your barrel a day or two after you cleaned it. Might be surprise at what your patch looks like. This is how I checked my cleaning method. At first I would get dirty rust patches. Adjusted my cleaning methods and now I no problems. I use the basic water/soap and Bore Butter Lube method. Also shine a flashlight down your barrel .. not check on spots you are missing.

 

[rice1817]

Swampman:

That is kind of the point that I was trying to get across. Too each his own, but I believe that cleaning down to the squeeky clean bare metal is counterproductive and not necessary. I am not completely sold on the bore seasoning thing with modern steel barrels, but I am convinced that it is not necessary to roust out that last little bit of black to get a spotless patch. I live in Western Pa, a fairly humid place in the summer, but my rifles are stored inside in an air conditioned house with forced air heat in the winter and I do not have a problem with this method. I shoot with guys who do not clean until they feel like it....they wipe the bore once if any with a clean patch at the rain to get out the worst of it, then hit the bore with a good shot of WD-40. They claim that as long as any water or moisture cannot get in to react with the fouling, then immediate cleaning is not necessary. They get good results, and laugh at me when I do even my modest cleaning ritual immediatey after shooting.

But, to paraphrase the Duke, "a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do" so if it puts your mind at ease to shine her up good, then by all means do it!

 

[rice1817]

Swampman:

That is kind of the point that I was trying to get across. Too each his own, but I believe that cleaning down to the squeeky clean bare metal is counterproductive and not necessary. I am not completely sold on the bore seasoning thing with modern steel barrels, but I am convinced that it is not necessary to roust out that last little bit of black to get a spotless patch. I live in Western Pa, humid in the summer. But I store my rifles indoors in an air conditioned environment, with forced air heat in the winter. I have shooting buddies that do not clean right away, not until they find time to get around to it. They merely run a spit patch down the bore, hit it with WD-40, and they are done until they feel like a better cleaning. They claim that the fouling itself is harmless unless exposed to moisture, and the WD-40 displaces moisture. They have been known to leave their guns uncleaned for days with no ill affects. They laugh at me when I do even my modest cleanup routine immediately! I would not do this myself, but it seems to work for them! And they are not shooting 100 dollar rifles, either. :youcrazy:

 

[longfowler]

If you shoot half as much as some of us do, eventualy you'll get so good and fast at cleaning you won't mind it any more! I swab with a gresed patch at the range, the when I get home I soak the barrels in a 5 gal bucket full of hot water & dish soap. swab 'em out and put them muzzle down to drip dry. then swab again with any good lubricant. I have to clean my wife's gun for her, And I can never go the range with just one of my own, so I've got the cleaning down to an assembly line like process!

 

[n8dawg6]

if you clean on the same day that you shoot, the fouling is softer and easier to clean from the metal. i have experimented with leaving a fouled gun for a varying number of days before cleaning, mainly out of laziness. it is possible to clean a blackpowder/pyrodex fouled rifle after letting it sit for a couple of days. however, the fouling hardens, even after one day, and makes your job exponentially more difficult. i have also left a rifle for a couple of weeks (nearly a month), and it was nearly ruined because the fouling turned to cement. the best, and ironically the easiest, thing you can do is clean your rifle on the same day you shoot it. as has already been mentioned, you'll get into a routine, and its really not that bad. i prefer to shoot only one blackpowder rifle a day, though, as cleaning more than one that night tends to get a little overwhelming (can fray the nerves a bit).

also, as previously stated here, this rule holds true whether you're shooting pyrodex, blackpowder, or triple 7. they all are most easily cleaned shortly after you shoot. and they have to be cleaned whether you shoot 1 shot or 100 (1 shot takes a bit less time to clean up :grin: ).

one other thing, and it has already been stated here, be sure to check your rifle a couple of days after you clean it. you can usually run just a few more patches down the barrel and clean out some residual fouling that was missed in the original cleaning, no matter how thorough (in my experience). using bore butter as a lubricant, i have had a rifle turn out to be significantly less clean than i thought when i checked back with it about two weeks after the initial cleaning!

cleaning really ain't that bad once you get used to it. it's kinda fun to bring a helplessly charcoal and sulfur-infested rifle back to shiny brilliance. :thumbsup:

 

[omgb]

Rule #1 with Pyrodex and or 777, never ever use any solvent that contains amonia in any amout. If you do, you will start a chemical reaction in the bore that will rust it out in as little time as over night. Rule #2, clean after shooting or else something will come up and you'll forget. by the time you get back to it, the bore will be ruined. Rule #3, Use hot water and soap (not detergent just irovry soad shaved into the water) and pump it through the barrel using a patch on a jag. Rise with more hot water. Dry with a patch or two. Permit a few minutes to air dry (the water was hot so the barrel will dry quickly) lightly oil with a good gun oil or BP lube and put away. beofre shooting make sure the bore is dry and oil free. petroleum products combine with BP residue to creat a hellish black crust/tar that defies cleaning. organic lubes like Crisco, Lard, Bee's Wax, Jojoba or Soy wax do not. I pull the nipple and clean that with a tooth brush. Ithen use some past wax on the wood and set everything away in the safe. The whole episode takes maybe 15 to 20 minutes start to finish at a nice slow pace. That's my $.02 and the way I've been doing it since '76 YMMV

 

[bullofthewoods]

Wow!
Thanks for the responses! I am not surprised that this is a subject with such varying points of view. I agree that the cleaning must be done right after shooting. I also agree that there is a great deal of satisfaction in making a fouled up black mess come back to life. A few more questions. Why is it that after a day or so, there is some crud left in the barrel? I have noticed this also. I also would like to know if there is a recommended "oil base" gun oil that you guys/gals use. I was once told to never let oil come into contact with anything black powder because of the tar mess. If I coat the barrel for long term storage with a gun oil, can I clean it out well enough with a wonder lube coated patch prior to shooting and have everything turn out OK? What is the recommendation there?

Thanks a bunch!

Bull

 

[roundball]

Rule #3, Use hot water and soap (not detergent just irovry soad shaved into the water) and pump it through the barrel using a patch on a jag.

Just to clarify regarding the refernce to "not detergent"...while I don't doubt for a minute that you approach works fine, I just don't want the reader to be mislead and conclude that dishwashing detergent shouldn't be used.

Liquid dishwashing detergent is all I've ever used in several muzzleloaders for 15+ years...nothing I've found leaches our every trace of residue as well as dishwashing detergent and steaming hot water...ie: that's what it's designed to do...bores are all still perfect today

:thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Why is it that after a day or so, there is some crud left in the barrel?

I've heard it referred to as "blooming"...you "think" the bore is clean looking at a clean patch, but residue film can still be there, particularly if all the manufacturing oils weren't leached out of the metal before firing the rifle.

Once you get the bore completely free of any trace of petroleum products and never put any petroleum products back into the bore, that should stop.

In my case for example, I happen to use bore butter, and none of my barrels have this 'blooming" effect a couple days later because of the way I clean them and the lube that I use in them.

SIDE NOTE:
You realy can't trust that a bore is clean just by looking at a clean patch, until you've taken the bore back down to the bare, raw metal, including the use if a good bronze bore brush...and then every time thereafter.

Part of my cleaning regimen includes a couple dozen quick strokes with a brush so there's never any chance for buildup to occur along those sharp 90* corners of the lands & grooves.

Simple test...next time you get your barrel clean, put it back in the bucket of hot soapy water and run a bore brush up and down a couple dozen times, then repatch it with a clean white patch...most of thre times you'll be shocked that they'll come out almost black due to the crud the brush has scrubbed loose.
:thumbsup:

 

[2172]

Swampman, did you mis-speak? I suspect that, "nothing ruins rifles more than not cleaning" would be more accurate. I'm also not sure who I'd accept as an expert...the guys at the Ft.Knox Armorers school who taught me, who pretty strict about cleaning..insisted that any gun that had fired corrosive ammo had to be cleaned on each of three successive days...maybe overkill, but the only time I scrimped, I had surface rust in 2 days...as to my current practice, I'm one degree less committed than Roundball..Hank