PureLead verses Wheel weights

[Mort Scott]

I have read about lead from wheel weight is to hard and we should use pure lead for best results My question is, can you add pure lead to wheel weights to make it soft.

 

[Sherlock]

Better just to keep them separate as it takes a lot of lead to dilute the non-lead WW components to a point of near pure lead softness. That being said I have shot Probably 50 pounds of WW round ball over the years at targets, pine cones, clay pigeons on the bank, and squirrels. For a thick patch, deep grove situation I didn't see any accuracy difference. Thin patch larger ball situation was harder to load ,that's all. But from shooting deer with RB, I tell you I believe in pure lead becase field shooting to kill a big game animal is serious work and a great part of the killing power is due to the ball greatly deforming but not breaking up. The WW ball is likely to shoot through without mushrooming. You will get the deer with a good shot, but a marginal shot? BTW, a deer can and will "jump the flint hammer" if it is close when you shoot. Wonky

 

[mazo kid]

Yeah, if you are gonna shoot WW you might just as well load the balls with thinner patches for target shooting, and forget about mixing it with lead. As Wonky says, it will take a LOT of lead to make the WW soft.

 

[J.D.]

Hard lead shoots real well in a smoothbore, so if you have WW and pure lead, one solution is to use the WW in a smoothbore and the pure lead in a rifle.

 

[bwhoffman]

Hard lead shoots real well in a smoothbore, so if you have WW and pure lead, one solution is to use the WW in a smoothbore and the pure lead in a rifle.

:thumbsup:

 

[bart_anastasi]

From what I have heard another way to get out the tin out is to in essence cook it out. A machinist fella I know explained it to me so here it is .

Take the lead and melt it.

Then since the melting temp of Tin is higher then Lead allow the temperature to cool to just over the melting temp of the Lead ???.

As this happens the Tin will solidify and rise to the surface and can be skimmed of. I was told that doing this you should not stir the molted metal as it stirs the tin back into the pot.

Never did myself but the fella seems to know his stuff.

You could give it a try.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

Bart I don't see an advantage in trying to remove the tin from the melt as the antimony and arsenic found in WW metal are what provide most of the hardness by far. Removing tin from the melt will cause an increase in oxidation (more dross) and reduce castability. I would go with the recommendations that others have already posted here as to WW use. :wink:


Ogre

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have used hard lead for paper patching conicals, and I have used it with only a over powder wad. With the paper patch I am seeing good groups with a clean barrel. When I shoot my lyman whitworth bullets I shoot them greased and a over powder wad. They shoot very well but fight a little going down. I would love to see what one of those 475 gr bullets would do to a elk. I have shot elk with soft lead and I think a little more hardness would be nice for a animal that big. Ron

 

[bart_anastasi]

Bart I don't see an advantage in trying to remove the tin from the melt as the antimony and arsenic found in WW metal are what provide most of the hardness by far. Removing tin from the melt will cause an increase in oxidation (more dross) and reduce castability. I would go with the recommendations that others have already posted here as to WW use. :wink:


Ogre

Ogre

Do what floats your boat but the P/C folks should start talking any time now. But as a hunter and target shooter.

The reason for getting the Tin out is many.

Castability I think you will find a pure lead casts as well as any other type of alloy probably better. I have been casting bullets since 1976 or something.

Hardness is one of the things we try to keep away from in M/L bullets. (If no one has mentioned it yet. and is not desire able)

Over hard balls and conicals will load tighter than a loft lead bullet since it will cast larger than a soft from any given mold.

Differing degres of hardness will cause bullets to weight less than a soft lead ball. Some of the maxi's I cast come out 413 grains rater than 425 which is usual for that mold.

Hard lead does not obdurate or fill out under recoile and fill the groves as well. (Softness) Which is good by the way for ML ing.

Different amounts of lead/tin will cause different POI point of impact.

Different lead hardness will cause unprdictable mushroom characteristics.

One of the most important ways to get max accurracy from a rifle is to keep the load constant. Not much of a chance of that with various hardness, size variance and weight swings on a batch of mixed metal lead.

As for really bigger animals for any caliber still stay with pure lead and get a longer heaver bullet for that caliber.

Example: with roughly the same amount of lead
T/C maxi hunter for dear T/C maxi Ball for Elk same soft lead different design for different animals.

As for what I said at first do what floats your boat.

However sources of lead that are clean are out there and there are ways to fix your lead.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Unless you have access to commercial equipment, the home caster cannot remove tin from lead alloy. It is done with thermocouples and electrolysis. The metal in most lead alloys that makes it the most brittle is antimony, but tin is definitely a NO-No, for Round balls. If you have no choice but to use Wheel Weights, or some other source of lead alloy to cast round balls, then sort them by weight, and then measure the outside diameters and choose a slightly thinner patch material to wrap around the balls in your barrel. The alloy balls will be lighter, and slighly larger-- by .002-.003 " of an inch, depending on caliber. Use a good micrometer, or caliper to measure the balls. Sorted, they may also require a sight adjustment to get them to hit the same POI as a pure lead RB, but they will group together well. The only problem I see, and has been commented on by others, is that every time you cast a new batch of balls from alloys, you have to do the sorting by weight all over again, and then sort by diameter, too. It makes shooting alloys a PITA! :cursing:

 

[Bon Sauvage]

PT sent

 

[Blizzard of '93]

casting Lee conicals for revolvers using as pure lead as practical is the way to go. easier to load using the rammer into the chambers. likely performs better (deforms) on game also.

 

[Dphar]

I have read about lead from wheel weight is to hard and we should use pure lead for best results My question is, can you add pure lead to wheel weights to make it soft.

Depending on the rifling form WW may work as well as pure lead. Note that Hornady (IIRC) sells hardened lead RBs.
I have a rifle with very narrow lands it will load and shoot WW (or 1:20 tin:lead) as well as pure lead. Though you may need to adjust the patch thickness. If you have wide lands and deep grooves it may not work as well and will likely be hard to start.
Tin:lead alloys will work fine as well. In fact 1:40 tin:lead casts much better than pure lead and is not much harder.

Hardened round balls were used almost exclusively for heavy game in the 19th century. Soft lead simply will not penetrate edequately on large African and Indian game. The late Turner Kirkland fell into the "pure lead" trap trying to shoot at African Elephant with a 4 bore. had he used WW or other hard alloy he would have gotten better penetration.

NOTE: From the information I have seen some modern WWs may not be lead but a zinc bearing alloy. This can make lead alloys uncastable.
This is a real PITA and I think I ran afoul of it with the last pot full of "WW" I tried to make round balls out of. Simpy would not fill out in the mould or consistently left a hollow at the sprue.
It only takes one or two in a pot full of metal to do this.
I think the myth that soft lead was the only usable material came from some original American rifles with very wide lands and tiny grooves. In this case hard balls would be very difficult to load.

Dan

 

[white_tail]

Save the wheel weights for making fishing lures and use the real stuff for shooting.

 

[bart_anastasi]

Well I am not sure about PC but the discussion on African Game moves us into a another whole field. :nono:

With only a few exceptions I do not think a 150 pound white tail or even a 1000 lb Elk is equivulent to Large African Game.

If we start drawing comparisions like this we may get far afield and make some bad choices.

I have not said that hardened bullets are not workable to some extent but they are going to call on some major fideling to get to work.

KISS Keep it simple Stupid is a good idea espcially for new comers just getting into casting bullets. IMHO