Purpose of Lube on the conical

[Melnic]

What is the purpose of the lube on a conical, maxi hunter, minie ball etc?

Thx

 

[hawkeye2]

To keep the fouling soft and in turn allow easy reloading. Of course it also lubes the projectile in its passage down the barrel.

 

[BrownBear]

It's also for getting all over your hands. That way you automatically dress your leather goods every time you handle them. :rotf:

Sorry, couldn't resist, but man, that stuff gets everywhere.

It's also to help prevent leading as the conical blasts out of the barrel on firing.

 

[Maven]

Ain't that the truth, Brown Bear! I was shooting my rifle (the kind that's unmentionable here) with them earlier today and it was indeed everywhere. Some even remained on the projectiles. :wink:

To the OP: Although the lube is supposed to keep the fouling soft, it is still something you have to manage. In my case, it meant damp swabbing after every shot, followed by dry swabbing once the conical was seated. When I changed over to patched RB's using 1 Water : 6 Ballistol, my fouling problems disappeared (patches were wet, but not dripping).

 

[tenngun]

I believe if God wanted you to shoot conical he wouldn,t have created rb. But I have owned two Minnie guns in the past. I have not done any testing to compare but was told grease in the hollow cavity improved expansion of the base through hydraulic pressure and allowed thin skirted minnies to handle larger charges with out a blow out. Cant say its true, but sounds good.

 

[longcruise]

It is to lube the passage of the bullet down the bore.

Veral Smith, owner of LBT (lead bullet technology) says the lube needs to be compressed and under pressure in the lube grooves to force a lube film between the bullet and the bore.

 

[pargent]

To make the caps easier to get off .

 

[nkbj]

Veral is right.
However, on the maxi-ball, the grooves are copious enough that the continual acceleration (ft/sec/sec) of the bullet is sufficient to slump the lube mass rearwards and therefore against the interface of the bullet to the bore.
In my own experiments lube in a hollow base can help expand the base, can help protect the lead rim of the base from melting and can help keep fouling soft. However, that doesn't mean that the effects are beneficial to accuracy with any given load.

 

[longcruise]

At a point back in my "conical period" I tried shooting several hollow base designs and found no difference between base loaded with lube and base left open. Not saying it's not a good idea, just that it worked fine without and since the loads were with hunting in mind, did not want to risk the lube melting into the powder!

In my .58, accuracy fell off rapidly with charges over 60 gr of ff goex regardless of how they were lubed. This was with the Lee Modern Target Minie which is basically a flying trash can. I concluded that with heavier charges the thin skirt was blowing out too much and turning into a badminton bird. Have no way of proving that and it was just speculation on my part.

It was a mule deer rifle and that load absolutely flattened them. Pretty sure it was attributable to the flat nose of that bullet. Always made a good wound channel.

To get back to the OP's original question;

What is the purpose of the lube on a conical, maxi hunter, minie ball etc?

While visiting an ML gun smith back when I first got started in black powder, he showed me a .58 rifle that had been fired three times with CW style minie bullets. The third one was still stuck in the barrel! :shocked2:

As regards Veral's theory, I took it to heart as far as modern lead bullet shooting is concerned but personally have shot many .50 Maxi balls that were actually rather sparsley lubed with good results. Like you point out, those lube grooves are big on a maxi so sparsley lubed is still quite a bit of lube.

 

[Melnic]

thx for all the replies.
I have some old .54 cal Maxi Balls that are unlubed. Can I just slather on some bore butter at the range to try them out?

 

[M. De Land]

Yes, I have had far better performance from maxi'
s than minie's.
I think the skirt on Minie's is blown off, when it happens,just as it clears the muzzle. No such trouble with a maxi and they are usually more accurate and can handle much heavier charges.
I don't remember ever having a maxi shoot poorly in the three calibers I've tried them in,.58, .54 and .50 caliber. Mike D.

 

[Billnpatti]

The two main reasons for using lube on a conical bullet is to keep the powder fouling soft and to keep lead fouling to a minimum.

 

[Mike 56]

+1 Sure bullet lube is just that bullet lube. But more importantly it needs to be a fouling modifier that leaves soft fouling not hard fouling. If all is right one patch in and out and your barrel is clean or if wanted you can load without wiping because there no hard fouling in the barrel.

 

[Melnic]

So for a hunting bullet, what would be the issue with fowling? Follow up shot?

I took my CVA hawken. It shoots round ball like crap. I think the barrel is rough.

Shot some Hornady Plains Bullets and grouping @ 5 was acceptable for Hunting.

The Maxi Hunter groups were a bit larger and higher (lighter bullet).

The Great Plains bullet shot good through the other cheap Pawn shop rifle. I have some on order for the .54 Lyman (my good sidelock).

I hope to try the Maxi Hunters next week in the .54.

 

[longcruise]

So for a hunting bullet, what would be the issue with fowling? Follow up shot?

Pretty much zero!

But, if you have read the Dutch papers, you know about the crud ring! When you shoot a conical the crud ring is considerably increased and after about 3 to 5 shots without wiping, my groups started to open up badly. When wiped after every shot the groups held together. If you should want your hunting loads to be accurate, you should sight in with a wipe between every shot.

It's nice to shoot without needing to wipe, but sometimes it just helps! When I shoot matches at the range, I wipe between every shot. Absolutely improves groupings with round balls. When just playing at the range I use spit or any wet lube that wipes while loading. For hunting, I use a grease or dry lube and sight in with a thorough wiping between shots and wipe between shots if needed in the field. But, like you say, for hunting, "what's the issue".

 

[RedFeather]

Don't do like I did when I first got my Zouave. Took it out that hot July and lubed the minies with Crisco as some writer or other suggested, including the bases. After a couple of shots and a hot barrel, I started getting slight hangfires. That lube was getting a bit too runny. Started just lubing the outside and it settled back down.

 

[Melnic]

Great point!
thanks.

 

[nkbj]

:haha:
The Crisco experience in a Zouave made me crazy.
I lubed the bases and the results were a seam of coal that had to be chipped out of the breech and from under the nipple.
What a mess!

 

[nkbj]

So for a hunting bullet, what would be the issue with fowling? Follow up shot?

Pretty much zero!

But, if you have read the Dutch papers, you know about the crud ring! When you shoot a conical the crud ring is considerably increased and after about 3 to 5 shots without wiping, my groups started to open up badly. When wiped after every shot the groups held together. If you should want your hunting loads to be accurate, you should sight in with a wipe between every shot.

It's nice to shoot without needing to wipe, but sometimes it just helps! When I shoot matches at the range, I wipe between every shot. Absolutely improves groupings with round balls. When just playing at the range I use spit or any wet lube that wipes while loading. For hunting, I use a grease or dry lube and sight in with a thorough wiping between shots and wipe between shots if needed in the field. But, like you say, for hunting, "what's the issue".

When shooting long bullets instead of round bullets it is sometimes beneficial set a punched out piece of egg carton on top of the powder and then swab the barrel before continuing with loading. It's for follow up shots and different from what you would do on the target range, a technique that lets you load into a relatively clean barrel without jeopardizing the quality of the ignition channel.

 

[Dphar]

What is the purpose of the lube on a conical, maxi hunter, minie ball etc?

Thx

Prevent leading and to soften the fouling, this last only if its formulated properly.
It needs to be a soft lube so it comes off the bullet at the muzzle. Hard/high temp and/or synthetic lubes not only do not soften the fouling they tend to only partly come off the bullet.

Dan