Putting a date on a pair of TC Hawkens .45 and .50 ?

[Sudsy]

Both were wall hanger decorations in a home, never shot, not a speck of burn on the wood around the nipples, perfect barrels.
Bought up some estates stuff, probably overpaid a bit but I also scored an unshot Ruger Old Army along with primers and powder and reloading tools for unmentionable stuff
It was a good day

TC .45 Hawken
M (Green River ?) Barrel
No warning on barrel




TC .50 Hawken
M (Green River ?) Barrel
No warning on barrel
What do the marking on the wood and the sticker that was under the trigger guard mean ?
( took it off to adjust the set trigger)

 

[Sudsy]

I'm assuming 1 : 48 twist for both ??

 

[ord sgt]

1 /48 is the standard for T/C. Both are early models, before warning stamped into barrels. Since there was a fire at the T/C factory, records were lost. That makes tracking dates by serial numbers almost impossible. We can only go by dates of purchase by other forum members to get a general idea of date of manufacture.
Barrels were made by T/C. If outsourced from Green Mountain, there would not be the T/C stampings.

 

[bubba.50]

The 'M' is just an inspector's mark. One of many TC used over the years. Several companies made drop-in replacement barrels over the years but they will always be marked by said company such as the Green Mountain IBS system barrels. Neither Green Mountain nor Green River nor Sharon ever made barrels for TC although they may have used a few Sharon blanks early on til they got their machinery fully set-up.

Little pix of a couple small areas of the gun tell nothing. Full length pix and pix of the serial #'s may help get you narrowed down to what decade they were made but that's about as good as you're going to get. Contact TC and you'll get their standard "We had a fire and all records were lost".

 

[Sudsy]

The 'M' is just an inspector's mark. One of many TC used over the years. Several companies made drop-in replacement barrels over the years but they will always be marked by said company such as the Green Mountain IBS system barrels. Neither Green Mountain nor Green River nor Sharon ever made barrels for TC although they may have used a few Sharon blanks early on til they got their machinery fully set-up.

Interesting.
When I did a search I found more than one post on the web with this:
Sharon used a spade,
Douglas a Maltese cross,
Green Mountain a capitol M

I found a page listing inspectors marks and none of them were any of the above

 

[Sudsy]

As soon as I get a chance I'll take photos of the whole guns

 

[bubba.50]

Interesting.
When I did a search I found more than one post on the web with this:
Sharon used a spade,
Douglas a Maltese cross,
Green Mountain a capitol M

I found a page listing inspectors marks and none of them were any of the above

All hearsay and rumors passed down and passed around til people started quoting them and accepting them as proof. A member here, cowboy, had some excellent posts on this including a quote from Warren Center himself(the Center half of Thompson-Center) in which he stated that they used a few Sharon blanks until they got their deep-hole drills up and running but that they have always made their own barrels.

But, maybe these keyboard experts know more than one of the partners himself.

 

[Sudsy]

All hearsay and rumor

a quote from Warren Center himself(the Center half of Thompson-Center) in which he stated that they used a few Sharon blanks until they got their deep-hole drills up and running but that they have always made their own barrels.

Good stuff - thank you

 

[Sudsy]

So basically all we know is that they are pre - S&W ??

 

[bubba.50]

So basically all we know is that they are pre - S&W ??

Yep. Pretty much. With better pix and serial numbers you may be able to narrow it down a little bit.

 

[bubba.50]

The Hawken was introduced in 1970 starting with serial # 1000 and by their 25th anniversary in 1995 Serial #'s were in the half million range. But with no records of how many were made each as in high years and low years down to approximate decade is about as good as it gets. Even if people tell you their numbers and what year they bought it there's no telling whether if it might've just been made or been sitting at the dealers for years.

 

[SDSmlf]

What do the marking on the wood and the sticker that was under the trigger guard mean ?

It’s means to me you have a later production TC stock after TC’s quality went to hell and they started using paper shims (your numbered ‘sticker’) in various places.

I’ve seen both red and yellow plastic covered pieces with numbers on them, apparently held in place with hot glue. After finding and digging out a few on different stocks, figured they were factory installed shims and replaced with pieces of wood or acraglas. Multiple pieces with different numbers on the same gun. Have found under trigger guard, trigger plate and tang.

Interesting.
When I did a search I found more than one post on the web with this:
Sharon used a spade,
Douglas a Maltese cross,
Green Mountain a capitol M

I found a page listing inspectors marks and none of them were any of the above

And now there is another post on the web stating it. This time in the Muzzleloading forum. Must be true. Only have to find it three times. Have you ever watched the ‘documentary’ movie Beetlejuice? Same concept.

 

[bubba.50]

It’s means to me you have a later production TC stock after TC’s quality went to hell and they started using paper shims (your numbered ‘sticker’) in various places.

I’ve seen both red and yellow plastic covered pieces with numbers on them, apparently held in place with hot glue. After finding and digging out a few on different stocks, figured they were factory installed shims and replaced with pieces of wood or acraglas. Multiple pieces with different numbers on the same gun. Have found under trigger guard, trigger plate and tang.

And now there is another post on the web stating it. This time in the Muzzleloading forum. Must be true. Only have to find it three times. Have you ever watched the ‘documentary’ movie Beetlejuice? Same concept.

Yep. And they used copious amounts of hot glue in the place of quality control to keep things in spec. And this from a man(me) who absolutely loves his TC guns.

 

[Sudsy]

It’s means to me you have a later production TC stock after TC’s quality went to hell

How long before the warning on the barrel (which these don't have) did this happen ?

 

[bubba.50]

How long before the warning on the barrel (which these don't have) did this happen ?

Another 'who knows?' question as is most everything you can ask about a TC is.

probably mid to late 80's or early 90's.

 

[Eric Krewson]

The last TC Hawken flint I bought new in the box online from a big box store had the lock held at the proper depth in the mortise with hot melt glue, this was around 2010. The first time I pulled the lock for cleaning the blobs of hotmelt glue fell out and the lock fit poorly. I hadn't done any gun building at that time so I didn't know how to fix this mess and sold the gun for much less than I paid for it just to get rid of it.

I swore I would never own another TC but my brother found a .50 TC kit at my father's house when he went to assisted living and gave it to me. By then I had built four B/P guns, with two of them scratch builds so I actually had fun putting the TC together.

I picked up a NOS Renegade kit barrel off eBay for $65 so off I go again, I collected a beat-up stock, an L&R RPL flintlock and all the necessary TC parts and made a mighty fine Renegade flintlock which I sold to a good friend.

Next I found a place that still had GM drop-in TC Hawkens barrels in stock so I bought one in .54 for my early kit gun build. After getting the barrel I thought, "If I can find a used stock and hardware for a reasonable price, I could have two TC Hawkens". I found a stock that looked good on the outside but when I took off the lock and other parts I found out it was a worn-out mess on the inside. A couple weeks of making this stock much more structurally sound on the inside than it was as a brand-new TC stock and I had me two very nice TC Hawkens rifles.

I swore I would never own another TC but they have a way of creeping into your life.

 

[harleynut]

If anyone needs to id a t/c anything Deester bees on facebook has one of the largest thompson collections ive ever seen .very knowledgeable tc gunsmith.!!