Pyrites

[Rockthrower]

Just came across an interesting observation on wheel locks: "pyrites was employed because it did not wear down the wheel as badly as did flint."

Has anyone tried pyrites in their flintlock?

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
On a wheelock, the hardened wheel bites into the pyrite, which is somewhat soft, and shards of pyrite are scraped off and heated to an incendiary condition that ignites the powder. The action is a lot like a cigarette lighter. The pyrite is the source of the incendiary material and because it is softer than the wheel, it does not wear down the grooves on the wheel. On a flintlock, the hard flint bites into the frizzen, scraping off tiny shards of steel that are heated to an incendiary condition. Therefore, the frizzen, not the flint, is the source of incendiary material and the flint must be hard and sharp enough to scrape off steel. A pyrite likely would not do that although the frizzen might chip off some pyrite that creates a few sparks. Regardless, the pyrite would not last for many shots.

dave

 

[Toomuch51]

Hi,
On a wheelock, the hardened wheel bites into the pyrite, which is somewhat soft, and shards of pyrite are scraped off and heated to an incendiary condition that ignites the powder. The action is a lot like a cigarette lighter. The pyrite is the source of the incendiary material and because it is softer than the wheel, it does not wear down the grooves on the wheel. On a flintlock, the hard flint bites into the frizzen, scraping off tiny shards of steel that are heated to an incendiary condition. Therefore, the frizzen, not the flint, is the source of incendiary material and the flint must be hard and sharp enough to scrape off steel. A pyrite likely would not do that although the frizzen might chip off some pyrite that creates a few sparks. Regardless, the pyrite would not last for many shots.

dave

Spot on :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Col. Batguano]

A friend of mine has a wheelie that he has had many problems with making it go boom. The sparks are small, few, and very white. That tells us that the spark source material is either too hard, or that the wheel sparking the pyrite isn't hard enough.

Going with the above, with flinters, we want sparks that are in the yellowish to orange color range. If they're white, the frizzen is too hard. If they're red, it's too soft. I submit the hypothesis that it isn't the raw hardness that makes the difference, but the disparity in the hardness between the flint and the frizzen. On that theory, if you used a softer rock, you might get whiter sparks, and a really hard one (like a diamond) the sparks would, in theory, be more red in color.

Can anyone verify or refute this conjectural hypothesis?

 

[tenngun]

I do carry a big hunk of pyrite in my fire kit. One nice piece has lasted at least ten years now.

 

[Tinker2]

Not sure what you are asking.
I have a flintlock that that I use pyrites in, it works ok.
I don’t get as many shots out of it as I do with flint.
I use it in that one gun because I can if you understand that reasoning.
Not because it’s better.
It is a lot easier to get good flint then good pyrites.

I have not looked it up for a while but in hardness they are close.

Pyrite’s hardness = 6 to 6.5 flint’s hardness = 6.5 to 7 [not sure of this].

Pyrite



William Alexander

 

[Rockthrower]

One of the interesting observations about a "pyrites lock" (flint type) is "that the hammer was always placed further back from the frizzen, which gave it a more oblique and longer scraping contact between the pyrites and the steel frizzen."

 

One of the interesting observations about a "pyrites lock" (flint type) is "that the hammer was always placed further back from the frizzen, which gave it a more oblique and longer scraping contact between the pyrites and the steel frizzen."

Unless you’re putting more than one piece in at a time, it's PYRITE. (no S) :wink:

 

[dave_person]

Pyrites lock????

 

[dave_person]

Hi William,
Pyrite is 6.3 on Moh's scale of hardness and flint, which is just microchrystaline quartz is 7 (same as quartz). The scale is qualitative and ordinal, and just ranks relative hardness but can't be used to gauge the amount of difference. For example, topaz is 8 but is twice as hard as quartz (7). Hardened steel is about 7 so flint and hardened steel are close.

I suspect the "pyrites lock" gun to which the OP refers is a Baltic or Russian snaplock offered on Gunsamerica The gun is meant to be used with flints and the seller doesn't know what he is talking about, not unusual for that website.

dave

 

[Rockthrower]

Well, Dave, it ain't necessarily so, so don't be too fast on the trigger.

The "Pyrites-Lock (with an 's')to which I refer is found on plate 18 of Herschel C. Logan's terrific and authoritative book, "Hand Cannon to Automatic."

If you don't own it, you should. It's spectacular.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Sorry Oakgall, Logan's book was published in the 1940s. So much more has been learned since.

dave

 

[M. De Land]

Yes, flint and chert both come to a 7 on the diamond scale of 10.
Obsidian is 5 if I remember correctly.
One of the reasons I think heat treated chert works so well is because it does not seem to shatter as quickly as does raw flint or chert. I do wonder if it has lost some of it's hardness though although I can't tell any difference in that regard when working it.

 

[Tinker2]

One of the interesting observations about a "pyrites lock" (flint type) is "that the hammer was always placed further back from the frizzen, which gave it a more oblique and longer scraping contact between the pyrites and the steel frizzen."

The lock that I use pyrite in is a standard flint lock, made for flint.
No different than any other flint lock.
I just use pyrite in it to raise eyebrows.



William Alexander

 

[Tinker2]

“Pyrite is 6.3 on Moh's scale of hardness and flint, which is just microchrystaline quartz is 7”

Thanks Dave, I usually don’t know as much as I think I know



William Alexander

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Pyrites!! Pyrites!! Man your guns laddies! Hoist the jib and lets see if we can outrun 'em. :surrender: :surrender:

Sorry...just couldn't resist.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan

 

[Zonie]

I heard a guy who wanted to be cremated out in the open and was told he couldn't do that tried arguing about his pyre-rights. :wink:

 

[M. De Land]

Oh Brother, the corn is tall this year! :rotf:

 

[Gene L]

I heard a guy who wanted to be cremated out in the open and was told he couldn't do that tried arguing about his pyre-rights. :wink:

You waterboarded that pun until it gave up.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I heard a guy who wanted to be cremated out in the open and was told he couldn't do that tried arguing about his pyre-rights. :wink:

And, Betty Crocker always made her pie right.