Pyrodex as a primer

[RickD]

I've never had any luck using pyrodex in the pan

 

[target man]

i have try it yesterday

first i have crushed some powder to make it thiner to work as pan powder

i have ''full'' the primer pan,,
it take all the time the powder burn in the pan before the big boom,
i tink it take close 2 long secondes,,,,,

i have try litle less powder in the pan ,it be ltle faster

and sure i had some miss fire
my vent is open to 5/64 ,and i have take care to put the pan powder into the vent hole

target man

 

[excess650]

If you have or can get some ffg or fffg BP, you could "screen it" and use the fines that fall through the screen as your priming powder.

Is it really easier to get "white whiskey" than blackpowder in NC?

 

[Grandpa Ron]

If you read the bottle, they tell you to use 5 grains or so of black powder under the subs in a flint lock. This is because the ignition temperature for the subs is higher than for black powder and they want a reliable ignition. I have some 50 grain Pyrodex pellets and they were coated with black powder on the end. Some use this method, some do not but it is recommended by the manufacturer.

As to why people choose the subs over black powder is easy.
1.) You can buy it almost anywhere.
2.) It produces less fowling.
3.) It is easier to clean.

That said, I almost always use black powder. I save the subs for my revolver and cartridge guns because the cleanup is easier.

I have used 2f, 3f, 4f and Null B in the pan, they all work and have all been used historically. The finer stuff burns faster. Whether you can tell the difference, I leave to the reader. I use 4f in the pan.

 

[Asher]

I'm curious, I know on the can of black powder it says never to mix with other powders, but have any of you ever tried mixing real black powder 1 for 1 with a sub just to see how it performed compared to straight BP? My predicament is that I have some sub stuff that I don't have as much use for, and would love to stretch my real BP as far as I can. I wonder if the grains of real BP mixed in with the sub would ignite easier and cause performance to be more akin to straight BP...

 

[Rifleman1776]

I'm curious, I know on the can of black powder it says never to mix with other powders, but have any of you ever tried mixing real black powder 1 for 1 with a sub just to see how it performed compared to straight BP? My predicament is that I have some sub stuff that I don't have as much use for, and would love to stretch my real BP as far as I can. I wonder if the grains of real BP mixed in with the sub would ignite easier and cause performance to be more akin to straight BP...

My gut instinct says you would ( probably) be OK.
But, the "probably" part and common sense tell me don't do it without doing some experimentation first under safe and controlled conditions.
Mixing chemicals, especially the kinds that can go "boom" :shocked2: is inherently an undertaking (wuz thet a pun? :grin: ) to be approached with caution.

 

[Coot]

I'm curious, I know on the can of black powder it says never to mix with other powders, but have any of you ever tried mixing real black powder 1 for 1 with a sub just to see how it performed compared to straight BP? My predicament is that I have some sub stuff that I don't have as much use for, and would love to stretch my real BP as far as I can. I wonder if the grains of real BP mixed in with the sub would ignite easier and cause performance to be more akin to straight BP...

It could probably be done but with likely poor results. Sort of like mixing salt & pepper, with carrying & bouncing about, the "mix" of BP & sub is unlikely to stay at a consistent ratio from one shot to the next - one shot has more BP that sub, the next shot has more sub - even pouring the mix down the barrel could lead to uncertain stacking of the different grains. A better system to use up a supply of sub powder would be to shoot duplex loads - first loading a fixed amount of BP & then a fixed amount of sub on top of the BP - getting consistent results from a consistent load. That said, I have only used BP for many years.

 

[gcdbanjo]

I would think that blending subs with real bp would make it difficult to maintain consistency of your load. It might affect accuracy because of the rate of burn. I sure understand wanting to stretch a lb of bp!

 

[Asher]

Good points by all, and that's true... it probably would be difficult to be consistent. But just for kicks maybe I'll try a small amount and just set it off on the concrete to see if there's any noticeable difference...

 

[excess650]

Pyrodex pellets have BP on the ends to act as a primer or ignitor. IMO, if you want to use your substitute and stretch your BP, use about 10gr BP in the barrel as a priming charge. Start lower than normal with the substitute and work up to make sure you don't get a nasty surprise.

 

[Matt85]

If you read the bottle, they tell you to use 5 grains or so of black powder under the subs in a flint lock. This is because the ignition temperature for the subs is higher than for black powder and they want a reliable ignition. I have some 50 grain Pyrodex pellets and they were coated with black powder on the end. Some use this method, some do not but it is recommended by the manufacturer.

As to why people choose the subs over black powder is easy.
1.) You can buy it almost anywhere.
2.) It produces less fowling.
3.) It is easier to clean.

That said, I almost always use black powder. I save the subs for my revolver and cartridge guns because the cleanup is easier.

i would hardly say the cleanup is easier. at least with pyrodex, it does foul less but the fouling is far more corrosive! i never have rust problems with my guns shooting normal BP but using pyrodex yielded small amounts of rust in the barrel and around the locks. i basically had to clean each gun twice to get em to stop rusting.

-matt

 

[gordy]

:hmm: I pretty much agree with Zonie,s assessment . The other item I,d have to agree with is the subs are availible most places . Yes I have used Pyrodex so I do know the difference . The origenal formula is quite close to real BP.
The other subs differ in chemical make-up.Mixing any of the subs with real BP is NOT an option the powder cos. will endorse , a sales clerk may try to tell you so but most don,t know the difference. I would suggest a phone call to the co. asking if they would reccomend such a practice? The preasure curves of the subs are quite different from real BP and the two together MMIGHT cause points of extreem preasures. For the real poop on real BP look up some of Bill Knights in depth investigation of the subject (yes , the same one who designed one of the dreded in-lines. for myself I,ll continue to chase down a source for real BP, rather then being forced into buying the subs. :v

 

[ebiggs1]

OK, I'll bite. Why do you want to mix it? :shocked2: When just using 5 to 10 grs of BP as a starter is easy and works very well. :idunno:
Just let the gun do the “mixing” for you. :thumbsup:

 

[target man]

i have contact all gun store on my area ,and i find one who have only goex primer ''FFFF''

may i have chance to considerably reduce the long delay i had whit the pyrodex as primer ?

i will fill the touch hole ,and some in the pan,

and was it possible to calculate some 4F in the barrell ? whitout any danger etc,,,,,


target man

 

[Matt85]

i would keep 4F out of the main barrel, the pressure spike would be quite high.

-matt

 

[ebiggs1]

A generous supply in the pan a some “trickling” into the touch hole. :thumbsup:

NONE IN THE BARREL. :td:

 

[target man]

the night before i went buy my FFFFg GOEX black powder

i have crush some pyrodex in fine powder
i have try it 10 time with an old flint
and it light 10 time in the pan primer
so that the best way to do for pyrodex use ,
but ,,,,,


i have try my black powder yesterday ,,DAMMM
its night and day ,

i have try burn both PYRODEX and BLACK POWDER in a spoon with a cigarette ,,

pyrodex burn ,burn very fast but burn,,

black powder EXPLODED ,so fast its like magic,
you saw nothing than a cloud of smoke appear

next try in my flintlock ,
i have put some in the pan and push some deep in the touch hole ,
i click the trigger and

BOUM ,, the delay is so very short ,,,no time to count seconde hahahaha

i hope could find some for the barrel soon ,
but now i have found a fast way to spent my pyrodex ,,


target man

 

[ebiggs1]

I don't know for a fact because I have not done it but I suspect using those 'fines' as a charge in the barrel would not be a good thing. So remember no 4F and no crushed Pyrodex in the barrel as a charge.

 

[Zonie]

Many times we say that 4F powder should never be placed into the bore of a muzzleloader.

Oddly, Hodgdon recommends using 4F as a starter for their synthetic powders when used in a flintlock.

The following quote is given in their Loading notes under Flintlock,

Flintlock: To insure proper ignition in flintlock systems, 5 grains of FFFFG priming powder should be placed into the bore prior to loading the main charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex."
http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html

While I agree that 4F powder should never be used in a muzzleloader larger than a .32 cal revolver, I think that a 5 grain charge of it to pick up the flame of the flintlocks pan flash would not present any dangerous pressures.

 

[ebiggs1]

Yes, sir, that is an exception to the basic rule. I do it often. I just didn't want an obvious new fellow thinking it was alright to crash Pyrodex and use it as a main load and as a prime. As a lot of posters brag about using the same horn for load and prime. A new to flintlocks person could draw the wrong conclusion.