Pyrodex in a Flintlock

[Stone]

Just an interesting note. I bought a Traditions Pa. Pellet (which was a mistake) which is supposedly "designed for" shooting pellets. Upon reading the manual, I see that is says to add two pan primers worth of 4F into the touch hole prior to loading the pellets.

 

[Sidney Smith]

No flintlock was "designed" to use pyrodex pellets. That was just a gimmick to sell a product. Again, if you still need the kicker charge, then that's the proof it wasn't designed around those pellets. Just another gimmick.

 

[James Stella]

You're right, I will not offer this man an apology, nor anyone else. Seeking advice is one thing, asking about the same subject that's been covered a thousand times, and is well known is something different.

I don't profess to know everything. However, what I do know, I learned on my own. I had noone to teach me when I started shooting muzzleloaders. I picked up as many books and articles as I could and read them until they were ingrained. I had no internet to get information from. But you know what, even without it, I still learned not to use Pyrodex in a flintlock. Why, because it has been widely written about for decades, and I researched ahead of time. Not my fault if someone would rather just ignore information that's been widely known.

It's obvious to me this man couldn't get hold of enough real black powder, and or didn't take the time to research the subject before attempting to use pyrodex in a flintlock. He could've saved himself from bad experimentation and negative results by simply researching ahead of time.. A simple Google search of " can I use Pyrodex in a flintlock" would've given him his answer right away.

It just gets old reading the same questions year in and year out when you'd think it wouldve sunk in by now. We're not dealing with kids in this hobby for the most part. These are grown adults who should know better. But, this is the reason why we have warning labels on everything, because people don't read, and even less learn.

I'm not concerned with someone getting offended if they don't like my answer. Research before blind experimentation. There is far too much information within easy reach to do otherwise.

Starting a new thread got me a hookup for black powder I had not been able to find.

I don’t understand why you read the thread to begin with if it bothers you so bad.

There were a lot of nice positive comments in this thread. A lot of helpful people.

Sorry I waisted your time. Truly I am.

 

[Brokenbear]

You're right, I will not offer this man an apology, nor anyone else. Seeking advice is one thing, asking about the same subject that's been covered a thousand times, and is well known is something different.

I don't profess to know everything. However, what I do know, I learned on my own. I had noone to teach me when I started shooting muzzleloaders. I picked up as many books and articles as I could and read them until they were ingrained. I had no internet to get information from. But you know what, even without it, I still learned not to use Pyrodex in a flintlock. Why, because it has been widely written about for decades, and I researched ahead of time. Not my fault if someone would rather just ignore information that's been widely known.

It's obvious to me this man couldn't get hold of real black powder, and or didn't take the time to research the subject before attempting to use pyrodex in a flintlock. He could've saved himself from bad experimentation and negative results by simply researching ahead of time.. A simple Google search of " can I use Pyrodex in a flintlock" would've given him his answer right away.

It just gets old reading the same questions year in and year out when you'd think it wouldve sunk in by now. We're not dealing with kids in this hobby for the most part. These are grown adults who should know better. But, this is the reason why we have warning labels on everything, because people don't read, and even less learn.

I'm not concerned with someone getting offended if they don't like my answer. Research before blind experimentation. There is far too much information within easy reach to do otherwise.

Mr RG (rude n grumpy) Smith ..I do not see moderator written under your name any...
..XXXX XX XXXXX
XXX XX X XXXX XXXXXXX XX XXXXX XX X X XXXX XX XXXX XX X XXXXX XXXXXX XXXX X XXX XXX XXX XXXXX XXX XXXX XX XXXX XXXXXX XXXXXXXX XXXXX

NOPE ...not gonna say/do it ...........

What I X'ed out just puts me to your level and gets me in trouble with the good forum folks and lessens me in my fellow forum members esteem.

Bear

 

[Boston Bill]

Really need outfit. R

Antiques Travelers & Trading in TX has plenty of Schuetzen powder in stock.
Better powder than GoeX anyway. Toby ships the same day.

(806) 470-4130

Really neat outfit. Really poor website.

 

[James Stella]

Really need outfit. R


Really neat outfit. Really poor website.

Yes. I could not find it on the website. Anyone wanting black powder right now should call them. They already shipped to me.

 

[James Stella]

You're right, I will not offer this man an apology, nor anyone else. Seeking advice is one thing, asking about the same subject that's been covered a thousand times, and is well known is something different.

I don't profess to know everything. However, what I do know, I learned on my own. I had noone to teach me when I started shooting muzzleloaders. I picked up as many books and articles as I could and read them until they were ingrained. I had no internet to get information from. But you know what, even without it, I still learned not to use Pyrodex in a flintlock. Why, because it has been widely written about for decades, and I researched ahead of time. Not my fault if someone would rather just ignore information that's been widely known.

It's obvious to me this man couldn't get hold of enough real black powder, and or didn't take the time to research the subject before attempting to use pyrodex in a flintlock. He could've saved himself from bad experimentation and negative results by simply researching ahead of time.. A simple Google search of " can I use Pyrodex in a flintlock" would've given him his answer right away.

It just gets old reading the same questions year in and year out when you'd think it wouldve sunk in by now. We're not dealing with kids in this hobby for the most part. These are grown adults who should know better. But, this is the reason why we have warning labels on everything, because people don't read, and even less learn.

I'm not concerned with someone getting offended if they don't like my answer. Research before blind experimentation. There is far too much information within easy reach to do otherwise.

You're right, I will not offer this man an apology, nor anyone else. Seeking advice is one thing, asking about the same subject that's been covered a thousand times, and is well known is something different.

I don't profess to know everything. However, what I do know, I learned on my own. I had noone to teach me when I started shooting muzzleloaders. I picked up as many books and articles as I could and read them until they were ingrained. I had no internet to get information from. But you know what, even without it, I still learned not to use Pyrodex in a flintlock. Why, because it has been widely written about for decades, and I researched ahead of time. Not my fault if someone would rather just ignore information that's been widely known.

It's obvious to me this man couldn't get hold of enough real black powder, and or didn't take the time to research the subject before attempting to use pyrodex in a flintlock. He could've saved himself from bad experimentation and negative results by simply researching ahead of time.. A simple Google search of " can I use Pyrodex in a flintlock" would've given him his answer right away.

It just gets old reading the same questions year in and year out when you'd think it wouldve sunk in by now. We're not dealing with kids in this hobby for the most part. These are grown adults who should know better. But, this is the reason why we have warning labels on everything, because people don't read, and even less learn.

I'm not concerned with someone getting offended if they don't like my answer. Research before blind experimentation. There is far too much information within easy reach to do otherwise.

I just read your response to Two Elks. In it you said,

“Seeking advice is one thing, asking about the same subject that's been covered a thousand times, and is well known is something different.”

My exact question was:

Does anyone use Pyrodex in a Flintlock as a main charge?

It was a question. Not is it better that black powder, just had anyone done it.

I count at least 7 responses, in this thread, of people who said they did, using duplex loads, and it works. So I learned about duplex loads.

If you assumed no one does I guess you were wrong. But that is not possible I am sure.


You also stayed that:

“and or didn't take the time to research the subject before attempting to use pyrodex in a flintlock.”

I didn’t need to research it. I already knew it was not the best. But if you read my thread I said the only reason I was trying it was because I had not been able to find any BP to order yet.

You also said:

“attempting to use pyrodex in a flintlock. He could've saved himself from bad experimentation and negative results by simply researching ahead of time”

What bad experimentation? I was still able to shoot my rifle. The ignition is slower than I want and I wouldn’t hunt with it, but I was still able to put rounds down range without anything blowing up. I was still able to learn more about the gun.

I realize the people who tried to help me are not TRUE flintlock shooters like you and I am sure I do not rise to your level ether. Maybe someday, when I have had the gun more than a month, I can rise to your level, but I doubt it.

You made a lot of assumption about someone you know nothing about.

And I still do not know why you waisted your time and frankly everyone else’s if the question bothered you so bad. Why not just keep scrolling?

 

[Sidney Smith]

The question upsets me simply because it continually gets asked. I imagine you couldn't grasp the concept of my post, and why I ranted. It's not so much you, but people like you who do not research a topic first. I don't know any easier way to put it to you.

Trust me, the thread didn't waste my time at all. And you as well did not have to respond to my posts either, but you did.

People on this forum know me well enough by now, in that I will speak my mind whether I'm agreed with or not. I found your question ridiculous for reasons I mentioned. That's all I'm going to say.

 

[William Lincoln]

When Pyrodex first came out it was criticized for poor ignition. Duplex loads
were tried and worked well. Fadala recommended them. The problem is that
while it steps-up ignition to add the pre-charge ,it slows down and complicates
loading. Absolutely nothing beats real black powder in the early ignition systems.
Then comes these shortages. Now we are back to using and tweaking substitutes.
We need the shortage issues solved. Bring back the old cheap Elephant stuff from
Brazil -or the imported Wano-- Nothing can replace real Black. Nothing.

 

[johnfrommd]

When Pyrodex first came out it was criticized for poor ignition. Duplex loads
were tried and worked well. Fadala recommended them. The problem is that
while it steps-up ignition to add the pre-charge ,it slows down and complicates
loading. Absolutely nothing beats real black powder in the early ignition systems.
Then comes these shortages. Now we are back to using and tweaking substitutes.
We need the shortage issues solved. Bring back the old cheap Elephant stuff from
Brazil -or the imported Wano-- Nothing can replace real Black. Nothing.

You are correct but something may have too. More municipalities are putting too many regulations for storing and selling Black Powder and stores are dropping it because, with the cost of the regulation requirements, it no longer turns a profit. The other problem we have is the chokehold that UPS and FEDEX have on shipping costs. As regulations grow, so will their Hazmat charges. Not all shooters can afford to pay the price. I believe this will force more folks to put their flintlocks aside for special occasions and switch to cap locks because they can ignite Pyrodex and Triple 7 without a kicker and priming charge.

I would love to be proven wrong but I don't think I will be.

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

Yes. I could not find it on the website. Anyone wanting black powder right now should call them. They already shipped to me.

Yep...one of the few dealers with plenty of Schuetzen in stock.
Its good powder, I believe everyone that uses it will like it.

 

[Newtire]

Thanks for the snotty comment. I guess I will just give up on shooting until I can find some 2f black powder to buy. Unless you can find some for me.

Boy! "Snotty,

You're right, I will not offer this man an apology, nor anyone else. Seeking advice is one thing, asking about the same subject that's been covered a thousand times, and is well known is something different.

I don't profess to know everything. However, what I do know, I learned on my own. I had noone to teach me when I started shooting muzzleloaders. I picked up as many books and articles as I could and read them until they were ingrained. I had no internet to get information from. But you know what, even without it, I still learned not to use Pyrodex in a flintlock. Why, because it has been widely written about for decades, and I researched ahead of time. Not my fault if someone would rather just ignore information that's been widely known.

It's obvious to me this man couldn't get hold of enough real black powder, and or didn't take the time to research the subject before attempting to use pyrodex in a flintlock. He could've saved himself from bad experimentation and negative results by simply researching ahead of time.. A simple Google search of " can I use Pyrodex in a flintlock" would've given him his answer right away.

It just gets old reading the same questions year in and year out when you'd think it wouldve sunk in by now. We're not dealing with kids in this hobby for the most part. These are grown adults who should know better. But, this is the reason why we have warning labels on everything, because people don't read, and even less learn.

I'm not concerned with someone getting offended if they don't like my answer. Research before blind experimentation. There is far too much information within easy reach to do otherwise.

If you already know everything already, why would you come here? Just to insult someone isn’t helping anyone. When people ask a question, they ought to be given the common courtesy of either a polite answer or just say nothing at all.

 

[Brokennock]

Boy! "Snotty,
If you already know everything already, why would you come here? Just to insult someone isn’t helping anyone. When people ask a question, they ought to be given the common courtesy of either a polite answer or just say nothing at all.

I agree some of the answers given to these questions lately could possibly be worded better. But this place has become a revolving hamster wheel of the same questions and discussion/arguments/debates over and over.
Often times new topics are created when the same thing is being discussed part way down the page of forum topics or a quick search will find the subject in topics discussed within a couple weeks.
No, no one comes here because they know everything and just want to be a jerk to people. We come here seeking new information or productive discussions on the subject. When every 3rd or 4th subject is a repeat the people looking for new or better info, to get deeper into or advance in the hobby, are held back.

The search feature may not be perfect, but it seems no one even bothers to try it. Or, they try it once don't get the answer they want, and abandon it.
New members should be encouraged to use it and play with it, there is so much info buried here, the only way to get to it is by searching and accessing those older topic threads. Some of which get pushed further and further away with every l, "stuck ball," "pyrodex in a flintlock," "I need 4f for my pan," and "cleaning/patch lube/storage protectant," topic.
If they find a old topic they can add new info to or have a question about, copy and paste the URL and refer to it in a new topic with the question or comment.

 

[johnfrommd]

Excellent advice on the use of the search engine. It should be a sticky on every forum I belong to.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I agree some of the answers given to these questions lately could possibly be worded better. But this place has become a revolving hamster wheel of the same questions and discussion/arguments/debates over and over.
Often times new topics are created when the same thing is being discussed part way down the page of forum topics or a quick search will find the subject in topics discussed within a couple weeks.
No, no one comes here because they know everything and just want to be a jerk to people. We come here seeking new information or productive discussions on the subject. When every 3rd or 4th subject is a repeat the people looking for new or better info, to get deeper into or advance in the hobby, are held back.

The search feature may not be perfect, but it seems no one even bothers to try it. Or, they try it once don't get the answer they want, and abandon it.
New members should be encouraged to use it and play with it, there is so much info buried here, the only way to get to it is by searching and accessing those older topic threads. Some of which get pushed further and further away with every l, "stuck ball," "pyrodex in a flintlock," "I need 4f for my pan," and "cleaning/patch lube/storage protectant," topic.
If they find a old topic they can add new info to or have a question about, copy and paste the URL and refer to it in a new topic with the question or comment.

Topics to resolve the same problems and often with the very same answers have been showing up regularly since I joined the forum. This is the price we pay for having experienced what we have in our journey of our muzzleloading hobby. We can be a better representative of the hobby by listening to what question is being asked and providing a polite answer. I do try to encourage the use of the search feature and the use of the Tables, Useful Information thread links. | The Muzzleloading Forum in the General Information Forum as well as the sticky notes at the top of most forums.

Search engines work best when one enters the correct search criteria and some of the search engines don't handle spelling errors very well. A search for "Penderselli" won't come up with much useful information about Pedersoli firearms. Sometimes we just have to take a higher stand and respond to provide the help that is being requested. Sometimes that means showing what the most productive search terms should be.

Now that we are facing shortages of real black powder, we need to reassess just what work arounds we need to make to continue this experience and make it as enjoyable as possible without coming across as a "Know-it-all".

 

[James Stella]

I agree some of the answers given to these questions lately could possibly be worded better. But this place has become a revolving hamster wheel of the same questions and discussion/arguments/debates over and over.
Often times new topics are created when the same thing is being discussed part way down the page of forum topics or a quick search will find the subject in topics discussed within a couple weeks.
No, no one comes here because they know everything and just want to be a jerk to people. We come here seeking new information or productive discussions on the subject. When every 3rd or 4th subject is a repeat the people looking for new or better info, to get deeper into or advance in the hobby, are held back.

The search feature may not be perfect, but it seems no one even bothers to try it. Or, they try it once don't get the answer they want, and abandon it.
New members should be encouraged to use it and play with it, there is so much info buried here, the only way to get to it is by searching and accessing those older topic threads. Some of which get pushed further and further away with every l, "stuck ball," "pyrodex in a flintlock," "I need 4f for my pan," and "cleaning/patch lube/storage protectant," topic.
If they find a old topic they can add new info to or have a question about, copy and paste the URL and refer to it in a new topic with the question or comment.

“No, no one comes here because they know everything and just want to be a jerk to people. We come here seeking new information or productive discussions on the subject. When every 3rd or 4th subject is a repeat the people looking for new or better info, to get deeper into or advance in the hobby, are held back.”


I respectfully disagree to your above comment. The comments to about me by Sydney Smith, comparing me to flying a model airplane while thinking I am an actual pilot is nothing more than trying to be a jerk. See below:

“Anyone who truly is passionate about flintlocks know better than to use substitute powder in them. No different than some inline shooter claiming to be a muzzle loader. Or a guy who plays with RC airplanes calls himself a pilot.”

If you guys don’t like the question asked just keep scrolling don’t be an ***.

There was another member who just asked where he could find some 4F powder. For asking that question her got a bunch of “why do you want 4F powder.” And then being told he is re asking an already answered question. No he was not. He just wanted powder. What difference does it make why he wants it? Just answer the question he asked.

 

[James Stella]

The question upsets me simply because it continually gets asked. I imagine you couldn't grasp the concept of my post, and why I ranted. It's not so much you, but people like you who do not research a topic first. I don't know any easier way to put it to you.

Trust me, the thread didn't waste my time at all. And you as well did not have to respond to my posts either, but you did.

People on this forum know me well enough by now, in that I will speak my mind whether I'm agreed with or not. I found your question ridiculous for reasons I mentioned. That's all I'm going to say.

Well I guess when you are the ONLY REAL PILOT on a forum filled with want to be model air plane flyers it gets frustrating having to deal with us. Well not me I am still just using the balsa wood airplane with the wind up propeller. I will never be a real pilot like you.

Your comment:

Anyone who truly is passionate about flintlocks know better than to use substitute powder in them. No different than some inline shooter claiming to be a muzzle loader. Or a guy who plays with RC airplanes calls himself a pilot.

 

[Brokennock]

“No, no one comes here because they know everything and just want to be a jerk to people. We come here seeking new information or productive discussions on the subject. When every 3rd or 4th subject is a repeat the people looking for new or better info, to get deeper into or advance in the hobby, are held back.”


I respectfully disagree to your above comment. The comments to about me by Sydney Smith, comparing me to flying a model airplane while thinking I am an actual pilot is nothing more than trying to be a jerk. See below:

“Anyone who truly is passionate about flintlocks know better than to use substitute powder in them. No different than some inline shooter claiming to be a muzzle loader. Or a guy who plays with RC airplanes calls himself a pilot.”

If you guys don’t like the question asked just keep scrolling don’t be an ***.

There was another member who just asked where he could find some 4F powder. For asking that question her got a bunch of “why do you want 4F powder.” And then being told he is re asking an already answered question. No he was not. He just wanted powder. What difference does it make why he wants it? Just answer the question he asked.

I agree he was rude in his response.
But, I'm sorry, I also understand his frustration.

If you guys don’t like the question asked just keep scrolling don’t be an ***.

You're right, we could keep scrolling, or we could try to get people to read some other posts, use the search feature, and risk actually learning something.

Have you ever in your life been flexible in your thinking enough to have someone give you a "rude" or terse response to a question and say to yourself, "gee I really could have thought about that more and figured it our, or I could have scrolled further, or tried more than one search," instead of just crying about the mean people?
Are people so inflexible in their thinking now that they are incapable of give and take in the exchange of ideas? Of saying, "yes, you have a point, but......"?

 

[Grenadier1758]

“No, no one comes here because they know everything and just want to be a jerk to people. We come here seeking new information or productive discussions on the subject. When every 3rd or 4th subject is a repeat the people looking for new or better info, to get deeper into or advance in the hobby, are held back.”
...
There was another member who just asked where he could find some 4F powder. For asking that question her got a bunch of “why do you want 4F powder.” And then being told he is re asking an already answered question. No he was not. He just wanted powder. What difference does it make why he wants it? Just answer the question he asked.

Most of us here offering other suggestions to the member who wanted 4f powder were trying to offer acceptable workarounds in this black powder shortage. It's not always simple to just suggest reliable suppliers who may have black powder. In this case information was being provided to offer workarounds and for that reason asking why the 4f powder was being sought out was necessary to offer an acceptable alternative to the use of 4f.

 

[Mad L]

I recently tried to buy bp in Des Moines Iowa but was told in every store that the fire department had banned bp due to the hazard. I could buy substitutes in every store tho. I checked it out and that is the situation. So, be prepared guys, the days of commercially available bp is coming to an end. I don't have a problem shooting substitutes, but I am going to try to make my own bp from instructions on youtube, in very small quantities. I found out that the 3 materials in the recipe are very readily available at a very low cost, including willow charcoal. So that may be our future.

Commercial BP is not coming to an end yet.
Ya'll just have to do what we in the west have done for decades; order on line or take a three or four day road trip.

Since the late 90s (that i am aware) that is how many of us out here have had to do it. I only knew of ONE range that sold BP over the counter, and even then it was hit and miss if it was in stock - but with a credit card we could buy a whole case and have it delivered to your door.