Pyrodex Pellet query

[arcticap]

The Remington's cylinder pin does need to be lubed more frequently compared to the Colt, after every 2-3-4 cylinders fired depending on the size of powder charges.
But that's easy to do since the captive pin pulls out in seconds for a quick wipe, apply some lube with a cotton swab, and wipe the face of the cylinder.
If the cylinder is removed for loading off the frame anyway then it becomes part of the loading routine.

The American Pioneer 3F Powder and 777 is generally easier to clean with water, and doesn't contain sulfur.
Other powders made by American Pioneer are Shockey's Gold and Black MZ which is only available from the Sportsman's Warehouse on clearance for $9.99 per pound while it lasts.
Even though the Black MZ is a very coarse 2F powder, it doesn't foul very much with folks giving favorable reports.
777 generally uses 10% reduced loads.
But they shouldn't be allowed to absorb moisture from humid air.

These substitute powder residues still need to be cleaned promptly or they can absorb moisture, but they usually aren't quite as harmful to the metal if cleaned thoroughly.and promptly.
Also keep the guns and fouling well lubed after use until they're cleaned for additional protection.
Which powder to choose is based on personal preference and experimentation since they all have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Paul Aguayo]

Thank you 'articap'. I've been perusing your posts and recognize you know your stuff. Was sayin' I love the looks of the 1890 but looks aren't everything (is what I tell myself when shaving in the mirror). So I'm probably going with the 1858 less some great deal comes along.
The only powder sold in Cabela's around here are Blackhorn 209, Pyrodex & Hodgen Triple Se7en. I'll have to learn how to measure loads to have them consistant. Keep the dotage away via learning new things. Again thanks to you and all the others who have put forth the effort to give me NEEDED advice.

 

[arcticap]

It's not a bad idea to handle a Remington before you buy one. Some people with large hands do complain about the trigger guard being in the way.
Also the Pietta sights are not adjustable, and the front sight is thin.
For a little extra money, their target model has an adjustable rear sight which is a plus, and a partridge front sight which is squared, sturdy and not as thin.
If a person has really large hands, only Dixie sells a Pietta 1858 with a larger grip frame, which is a new offering.
If you buy one by mail order, it's hard to find an 1858 target model for less than Cabela's price.
With any mail order gun, it's important to ask about a return policy so that it can be sent back if you don't like it.
If you buy the right gun it can last a lifetime.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Something else for you to consider... One time while at the range, a friend was shooting his revolver using the Pyrodex pellets. We could see at times streaks of white smoking bits going down range. It turned out the smoking bits was from the Pyrodex pellets. They would go down range about 15-20 yards or so. They landed in the short, but dry grass. Sometimes those bits would start to smolder. We would run out and stomp out the glowing, smoking grass. I don’t think he uses that stuff anymore. He was shooting a Ruger Old Army.

 

[Paul Aguayo]

It's not a bad idea to handle a Remington before you buy one. Some people with large hands do complain about the trigger guard being in the way.
Also the Pietta sights are not adjustable, and the front sight is thin.
For a little extra money, their target model has an adjustable rear sight which is a plus, and a partridge front sight which is squared, sturdy and not as thin.
If a person has really large hands, only Dixie sells a Pietta 1858 with a larger grip frame, which is a new offering.
If you buy one by mail order, it's hard to find an 1858 target model for less than Cabela's price.
With any mail order gun, it's important to ask about a return policy so that it can be sent back if you don't like it.
If you buy the right gun it can last a lifetime.

arcticap, I just checked out the Cabela's site. $50.00 more for the Target model. Guess that would be easier than buying new sights and installing them. I'ld like to be able to both target at the range and be able to take a hog at my buddies ranch just outside of San Antonio. All the input I've been receiving on this forum is telling me to use powder, more options there. My mitts are not large at all, fought lightweight 54 years ago.

 

[Paul Aguayo]

Something else for you to consider... One time while at the range, a friend was shooting his revolver using the Pyrodex pellets. We could see at times streaks of white smoking bits going down range. It turned out the smoking bits was from the Pyrodex pellets. They would go down range about 15-20 yards or so. They landed in the short, but dry grass. Sometimes those bits would start to smolder. We would run out and stomp out the glowing, smoking grass. I don’t think he uses that stuff anymore. He was shooting a Ruger Old Army.

Well that helps cinch the decision to go powder, that's all I have to set my buddies fields on fire down in Texas on a hog hunt... heck, he'ld bar b' que ME! Nope, heard enough. Set aside my penchant looking for the easy way and learn the powder method.

 

[rodwha]

Well that helps cinch the decision to go powder, that's all I have to set my buddies fields on fire down in Texas on a hog hunt... heck, he'ld bar b' que ME! Nope, heard enough. Set aside my penchant looking for the easy way and learn the powder method.

Since you are considering using this pistol to shoot hogs you’ll want to use either Swiss, Olde Eynsford, or Triple 7 powder. And a wide meplat conical would be ideal.

The powders I listed will get you into the standard .45 ACP level of performance with a bullet. The other powders will get you into the .38 Spl/+P range. Big difference.

And a wide meplat bullet will create a wider permanent wound track and penetrate deeper than a ball.

If you look at chronographed load data you’ll see these figures are fairly common, and as you can see the other powders just pale in comparison. The Grafs powder is rebranded Schutzen and gives comparable velocities as most other basic powders such as standard Swiss. The Pyrodex numbers are low for Pyrodex. I’ve seen it give comparable velocities as most standard BP, but also as high as Swiss, which is one reason I wouldn’t trust it.





These are the custom conicals I created at Accurate Molds along with a cast .457” round ball. The one to the left of the ball weighs 195 grns and is .460” long with a .375” (83%) meplat. My NMA’s more accurate load is 30 grns (33 grns weighed) 3F Olde E and there’s a bit more room for powder, which I intend to fill with lead when I modify my design.

 

[Paul Aguayo]

Since you are considering using this pistol to shoot hogs you’ll want to use either Swiss, Olde Eynsford, or Triple 7 powder. And a wide meplat conical would be ideal.

The powders I listed will get you into the standard .45 ACP level of performance with a bullet. The other powders will get you into the .38 Spl/+P range. Big difference.

And a wide meplat bullet will create a wider permanent wound track and penetrate deeper than a ball.

If you look at chronographed load data you’ll see these figures are fairly common, and as you can see the other powders just pale in comparison. The Grafs powder is rebranded Schutzen and gives comparable velocities as most other basic powders such as standard Swiss. The Pyrodex numbers are low for Pyrodex. I’ve seen it give comparable velocities as most standard BP, but also as high as Swiss, which is one reason I wouldn’t trust it.





These are the custom conicals I created at Accurate Molds along with a cast .457” round ball. The one to the left of the ball weighs 195 grns and is .460” long with a .375” (83%) meplat. My NMA’s more accurate load is 30 grns (33 grns weighed) 3F Olde E and there’s a bit more room for powder, which I intend to fill with lead when I modify my design.

I think Triple 7 is available at Cabela's (not certain). Do I get a mold to create the conical? I know better than to use hollow points on the larger boar having had a religious experience (Oh God!) in NC using hollows in a .44 Mag Ruger Carbine.

 

[rodwha]

I think Triple 7 is available at Cabela's (not certain). Do I get a mold to create the conical? I know better than to use hollow points on the larger boar having had a religious experience (Oh God!) in NC using hollows in a .44 Mag Ruger Carbine.

You would do yourself a favor by molding your own if you shoot often enough. There are a few people who sell cast wide meplat bullets.

When I created my own there just weren’t many options, and the one I knew of who cast and sold charged $40/50 + shipping which got raised to $50. Scrap lead can often be found for about $1/pound. That’s 35 bullets for a dollar without shipping. But, of course, you have to buy a melting pot, ladle, and mold(s) (assuming you have gloves and safety glasses).

Here’s an idea of the permanent wound channel by meplat size and velocity:

https://beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/61

In case you aren’t aware you can see from the few ballistics gel results using a ball that you’ll generally get a short permanent wound track that’s a little over caliber size (a few inches deep) followed by caliber size for the reamainder.

 

[arcticap]

Since you are considering using this pistol to shoot hogs you’ll want to use either Swiss, Olde Eynsford, or Triple 7 powder. And a wide meplat conical would be ideal.

The powders I listed will get you into the standard .45 ACP level of performance with a bullet. The other powders will get you into the .38 Spl/+P range. Big difference.

And a wide meplat bullet will create a wider permanent wound track and penetrate deeper than a ball.

If you look at chronographed load data you’ll see these figures are fairly common, and as you can see the other powders just pale in comparison. The Grafs powder is rebranded Schutzen and gives comparable velocities as most other basic powders such as standard Swiss. The Pyrodex numbers are low for Pyrodex. I’ve seen it give comparable velocities as most standard BP, but also as high as Swiss, which is one reason I wouldn’t trust it.

These are the custom conicals I created at Accurate Molds along with a cast .457” round ball. The one to the left of the ball weighs 195 grns and is .460” long with a .375” (83%) meplat. My NMA’s more accurate load is 30 grns (33 grns weighed) 3F Olde E and there’s a bit more room for powder, which I intend to fill with lead when I modify my design.

I've seen these velocities too many times now without voicing an opinion that I don't trust them.
In particular I don't trust the figures for Pyrodex P.
I don't know if there was something wrong with his Chrony, or if it was deliberate.
But those Pyrodex figures are just too inconsistent.
Perhaps the fellow didn't compress his powder when he rammed with his Tower of Power loader.
Or his Pyrodex P powder was bad.
I've seen test figures that show that Pyrodex P can often exceed black powder.
Yet IMHO the Pyrodex P figures show a complete disconnect with reality.

Here's velocities from a 5.5" Remington that exceed the velocity from that 8 inch barrel model.
And I believe that these were 5 shot groups that produced these results below.
I think the testing above was somehow screwed up.
How can 32 grains of Pyrodex P from a 5.5 inch barrel Remington produced so much
more velocity than 30 grains from the 8 inch barrel Remington above unless there was a screw up?
How can one Pyrodex P reading above be 297 FPS?

Published chronograph velocity data for a 5.5 inch Remington 1858 revolver.
Powder by Volume-------Bullet Weight ------ Average Velocity
28 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----593 ft/s
32 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----700 ft/s
32 grains 3F Pyrodex----140 grain.454 ball----850 ft/s
35 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----875 ft/s
35 grains 3F Pyrodex----140 grain 454 ball----945 ft/s
35 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----960 ft/s
37 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----950 ft/s
37 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----960 ft/s
42 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----1019 ft/s
46 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----1050 ft/s
37 grains 3F GOEX BP--140 grain 454 ball----898 ft/s
40 grains 3F GOEX BP--140 grain 454 ball----949 ft/s
42 grains 3F GOEX BP--140 grain 454 ball----964 ft/s
Source:
http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

 

[rodwha]

I've seen these velocities too many times now without voicing an opinion that I don't trust them.
In particular I don't trust the figures for Pyrodex P.
I don't know if there was something wrong with his Chrony, or if it was deliberate.
But those Pyrodex figures are just too inconsistent.
Perhaps the fellow didn't compress his powder when he rammed with his Tower of Power loader.
Or his Pyrodex P powder was bad.
I've seen test figures that show that Pyrodex P can often exceed black powder.
Yet IMHO the Pyrodex P figures show a complete disconnect with reality.

Here's velocities from a 5.5" Remington that exceed the velocity from that 8 inch barrel model.
And I believe that these were 5 shot groups that produced these results below.
I think the testing above was somehow screwed up.
How can 32 grains of Pyrodex P from a 5.5 inch barrel Remington produced so much
more velocity than 30 grains from the 8 inch barrel Remington above unless there was a screw up?
How can one Pyrodex P reading above be 297 FPS?

Published chronograph velocity data for a 5.5 inch Remington 1858 revolver.
Powder by Volume-------Bullet Weight ------ Average Velocity
28 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----593 ft/s
32 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----700 ft/s
32 grains 3F Pyrodex----140 grain.454 ball----850 ft/s
35 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----875 ft/s
35 grains 3F Pyrodex----140 grain 454 ball----945 ft/s
35 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----960 ft/s
37 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----950 ft/s
37 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----960 ft/s
42 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----1019 ft/s
46 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----1050 ft/s
37 grains 3F GOEX BP--140 grain 454 ball----898 ft/s
40 grains 3F GOEX BP--140 grain 454 ball----949 ft/s
42 grains 3F GOEX BP--140 grain 454 ball----964 ft/s
Source:
http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

Poconoshooting also shows that his .44 cal 1851 only gained 70 fps compared to standard Goex. Sometimes the numbers are similar.

Lyman’s 2nd Edition handbook shows results where the velocity isn’t much faster in some and considerably better in others.

I don’t recall now but I think the fellow had old powder, and I believe he said as much, which is why I mentioned it.