Pyrodex RS

[Thunderchild]

Hello

I am new to the forum. I have a question about Pyrodex RS. I have been using it in my Zouave (Euroarms) and Enfield (army sport). (I much prefer black powder but is hard to find in my area and Pyrodex is easy to get). I use a Zouave Piece flask with a 60 grain spout to dispense powder into a plastic loading tube. I know that there is no direct weight comparison between black powder FFG and Pyrodex. The only similarity is in volume measurement. However that being said. Is there a conversion chart available that would allow me to use powder scale to measure Pyrodex powder? I looked on the Pyrodex website and it was little or no help. I have two additional spouts for my flask and do not know how much they mesure. I want to fill the spouts and mesure the weight of the charge in the scale.

TC

 

[Rebel]

Not aware of any chart but you could fill the spouts with 2f black powder and weight that and then use that to figure out what the equivilent RS charge would be. Did that make any sense? :grin:
Ok, i found this info in my 1976 First Edition Lyman Black Powder Handbook. Pyrodex is supposed to weigh 80% as much as black powder so a 100 gr equiv. charge of RS should weigh around 80 grs. You should be able to calculate from there.

 

[Semisane]

Here's one I made for my own use. I can e-mail you a rich text format (rtf) document file which will print on 8 1/2 X 11" paper if you send me your e-mail address. I'm [email protected]

 

[Zonie]

I recall that the Pyrodex container made a big deal out of the lighter actual weight giving a person more shots per pound. As I recall they said you would get 30 percent more shots because Pyrodex was 30 percent lighter.
Noting that my "30 percent" doesn't equal Rebels 20 percent leads me to say I like the "actually weighing it" idea the best.

Throw maybe 4 or 5 charges of real black powder into your scale and record the weights of each.
Then switch to the Pyrodex and repeat, recording the actual weight of each.

Using these values you should be able to calculate the percentage of weight change for the two powders.

The reason I like this method is it will give you actual values to arive at the weight difference factor and you should be able to use this percentage to calculate the Pyrodex weight for any black powder charge you want.

 

[Rebel]

Good chart to get an idea but not all adjustable powder measurers throw the same charge. And i think the reason your charges weighed Heavy is because of the pencil tapping, refilling and the tapping again. But as long as you do it exactly the same each time it should work good for you.

 

[Rebel]

I got my 20% figure from that Lyman Handbook. Supposedly that is what the inventor Dan Pawlak said the difference was. But the throwing charges of 2f black and then RS and weighing each type is the best idea.

 

[Semisane]

You're exactly right Rebel. My buddies and I did a powder measure comparison and the variances in the measures themselves were amazing, as were the weights of charges from the same measure depending on how you filled it.

I made that chart because I weigh my changes and wanted a general "rule of thumb" for weight to volume comparisions.

 

[Rebel]

And like i said, that chart should work good for You. Nothing wrong with making things like that for yourself. Heck, i need to write down everything just to remember it any more. :grin:

 

[nw_hunter]

Repeat that again Rebel! Would you?.....So I can write it down :rotf:

 

[Rebel]

NO, ya shoulda rit it down the first time. :grin:

 

[bart_anastasi]

We have had some people here at the club get into this and with some very expensive ML's to boot.

Mostly modern shooters seem to get into this weight is important thing because they are hyper-sensitive and alert to this in smokeless powder.

Welcome to the world of it does not matter what the stuff weighs.

And if you get into this you can drive yourself nuts for no real reasion. I speak the truth here. (at least I think so)

What you really are looking for (or should be looking for)
is a consistant way to measure a (volume of powder) to pour in your gun.

Now it would be nice if this volume of powder just happened to give your gun the best accuracy and constant grouping. This is what modern shooters are always looking for.

To get this you do not need scales or pre-measured tubes IMHO they will only get in the way.
You need a adjustable powder measure which will give you infinate adjustment possibilities based on volume period.

In testing your gun out on the range you can start with say 70 grains by volume and shoot a group. Then go to 72.5 grains and shoot a group. Then go to 80 grains by volume and shoot a group. Well you get the idea.

Some powder measures that come from T/C are great one is clear plastic and has a swivel cone that cuts of (levels) the charge and acts as a spout to pour in the powder. The other is more off a brass thing again fully adjustable with a spout that cuts off excess powder neatly really cool.

Then when you have the perfect load if you really need to know that it is 98.654789 grains Ok i guess.

 

[mykeal]

This is a great thread for those of us with OCD. Then I take my meds and just enjoy the noise and smoke...

 

[roundball]

Then when you have the perfect load if you really need to know that it is 98.654789 grains Ok i guess.

:thumbsup:

 

[Kentuckywindage]

100 grains of FFFg goex is equal to 85-90 grains of pyrodex P.

 

[ldykeman]

I have a "Hodgdon Pyrodex/Black Powder Shooters Handbook" dated 1981. There is a chart in it comparing the weight of black to Pyrodex. The caveats stated are "NOTE: As a standard for comparison of velocities and pressures we use Goex FFFg Black Powder. Different lots and brands of black powder will vary considerably in velocity and pressure obtained with a given load. Pyrodex is bulkier than black powder resulting in approximately 25% more shots per pound than with black". Then they show the comparison chart:
"Volume to Volume comparison chart: black powder to Pyrodex"
BP 10 gr. = 8 gr. Pyrodex
BP 20 gr. = 16 gr. Pyrodex
BP 30 gr. = 24 gr. Pyrodex
BP 40 gr. = 32 gr. Pyrodex
BP 50 gr. = 40 gr. Pyrodex
.
.
.
This goes linearly up to the last entry on the chart which is:
BP 200 gr. = 160 gr. Pyrodex

So they say on a volume to volume basis, Pyrodex will weigh 20% less than Goex FFFg BP (but note the caveat about brand and lot inconsistency). So they verify what others have said above.
Larry

 

[Thunderchild]

I would like to thank everyone for there impute on this discussion. Lots of good in-depth info here. I am trying to find out what the capacity of the flask spouts I bought ten years ago and just found. I think that they are 70 and 100 grain. I bought them for civil war blank shooting. One of them might be good for loads for shooting round balls at paper targets and maybe deer or pigs. I think I will get one of those clear plastic powder measures and use it to determine what capacity the spouts are. If I had black powder this would not be a problem.

 

[Thunderchild]

I would just like to update my progress on solving the size of the powder spouts. I went down to the big box and bought a Thomson Center Contender clear view powder measure that would measure between 5 and 120 grains. I filled the clear view measure with Pyrodex RS from the three spouts and found that the spouts were 60, 80 and 110 grain spouts respectively. I was certain that the smallest was a 60 grain spout because it is the one that came with the Zouave Peace flask. The fill volume of the 60 grain flask spout was exactly to the top with out overflowing or having to pack the powder down. This gave me confidence I was on the right track. Then I poured 100 grains from the clear view measure into the 505 powder scale. 100 volume grains of Pyrodex RS weighed in at 70 weight grains.

I plan to use one of the two larger spouts once I find the sweet spot on the powder charge when shooting .570 round balls from my Zouave . I can cut the spout down to what is needed once I find out what works best. I want to use the Zouave to kill pigs. A mini ball will do to much damage to the carcass of a pig. I figure a 200+ grain round ball will shoot flatter and hit well enough for the ranges expected from a tree stand.


TC

 

[Rebel]

If you are planning on pouring the powder directly from the flask into the barrel please don't. You just got here and we haven't even got to know you yet. Use a powder measurer for pouring the charge into the barrel or else there is a possiblity, athough a small one, that the flask could be ignited by a hot ember in the barrel. Not much of a worry if you swab between every shot but i like to shoot more than swab so i don't do that.

 

[Thunderchild]

Rebel

I am a safe shooter. You can read my first post and it states I use a plastic shooting tube to load powder into the musket. I have several of these plastic shooting tubes that I load pre measured powder and lubed mini balls into. I am very careful when shooting. I want my fingers and the skin on my face like they are. I am very safety minded and encourage others to be safe as well. However, I do believe we should keep watch for one another.