Pyrodex vs Real BP

[Danny Ross]

I am new here, but have used caplocks for quite a few years. I have always shot Pyrodex RS in my caplocks 50 or 54. I had always heard that Real BP was better but no one could or would tell me why. The deer I have shot using using my 50cal Renegade with the 1:66 barrel, I never had a pass through and I use 95grs of powder. The closet deer I have shot was about 35yds with it and it was a button buck and the roundball did not go through. I kept that roundball, it was found under the hide on the off side, a memory of my first muzzleloader kill. I figured that was the norm since my other 5 50cal deer never had a pass through. I got a 54cal Renegade with a 1:66 barrel and finally got a pass through on a 6point at about 65yds again using 95grs of Pryrodex RS. Thought okay this is cool. Friend of mine talked me into getting a flintlock so I got a 50cal GPR. Started shooting Real BP I knew I had to since it was a flintlock. I shot a 6pt with it at about 40-45yds up hill with the 95gr 2F. When I shot that deer that 50cal round ball took that deer clean off of its feet and it slid about 30yds down hill and never regained its feet. I thought okay I am going to recover this roundball and keep it for my first flintlock kill. Wrong, when we skinned that deer the roundball busted a rib going in and clipped one going out and it kept on going. Got a GPR 54cal caplock and started shooting it. Now my targets that I sight in on is a 1" orange round stick on dot at 50yds on a grid target. Most of the time I can keep a 2-2.5 inch group using the 95grs of the Pyrodex RS with all of my caplocks off a rest, till I got this gun. That 54cal GPR shot the center out of that 1" dot with 6shots and couple of flyers (1 a inch low and one 2 inches right) which I figured was me, again using 95gr of the RS. Man I was as happy as a pig in slop :thumbsup: . Went home to clean the gun, had the barrel leaning against my trucks tailgate when my wife came home and decided for some reason to use her garage door opener, since the door was already opened. Went to grab something to get it out of the way with the door coming down, bump the barrel it fell over and knocked both the front and rear sights loose :cursing:. I knew where the fixed rear sight was suppose to be and put it back. The next week I went back to gun range, had to was going hunting with it in a week, and ball parked the front sight. I could not for love nor money get that gun to group after 12 shots, it was all over the place with the Pyrodex RS, it was the same can and same caps, patches, table and rest that I used the week before . The difference, it was 20 degrees colder, it was 63 degrees the week before, 40 degrees this day. I thought okay I had heard Real BP was better, I am going to find out. Loaded up 95gr 2F with the patched round ball shot 1"left of center, loaded again shot right next to it. Adjusted the front sight. Next four shots in the center. Started shooting Real BP in all of my guns after that. I am pretty much shooting the center out of that 1" dot with all of my guns now at 50yds, if I do my part with the 95gr load of 2F Real BP. My conclusion: I shot Pyrodex RS for years and settled for its accuracy and energy and thought Real BP would do the same. After shooting Real BP I have discovered it produces more consistent energy levels which improved the accuracy no matter what the temperature as shown with the 54cal GPR, and appears to produce more energy than Pyrodex RS as shown with with the flintlock kill when it took the deer clean off of its feet and the roundball went clear through the deer which never happened using the Pyrodex RS. As stated before, I had killed 6 other deer using the Pyrodex RS 5 of which was with the 50cal Renegade and never had a pass through. Also a friend mine has a Cabelas Hawkens rifle 54 cal he has always shot Pyrodex Select 80gr patched roundball his first and only black powder kill, he did not get a pass through on a button buck at 35yds. His groups were no better than 3-3.5 inches on a good day using Pyrodex Select with that gun. I had him try my Real PB 2F and he started shooting the 1-1.5" groups right off the bat with his 80grs. Pyrodex is what it is, a substitution. Though it works and is easier to obtain than Real BP it fails in comparison to what the real thing produces. It took me using it to understand the differece. If it wasn't for that 54cal GPR sights getting messed up I would have never found out, because I would have kept on shooting Pyrodex in my caplocks not knowing any better. Now I can tell others what no one else was able to tell me. Why Real Black is better: Better groups and better down range energy no matter what the temperatures. Just thought I would share my experiences and maybe give some incite to someone else who has settled for what the substitutes produce and what they may be missing. DANNY

 

Geez, your post was incredibly long, but your title says it all. REAL vs something else. That's it.

Get it? :wink:

 

[buford87]

When I have tried using Pyrodex my big problem was poor ignition. It has been 30 or 35 years since I used pyrodex and I never again will use Pyrodex.....................watch yer top knot....................

 

[MacRob46]

A lot of people bought Pyrodex years ago because they had the mistaken idea that you did not have to clean the gun it was fired in. Wrong of course and I saw a very nice Sharps that was ruined by that theory. Then they bought it because it did not foul as badly as BP. That was right, sort of, but was not significant because with proper lubrication of patches and bullets you can keep fouling to a minimum with BP. Then it was supposed to be a more consistent propellant than BP. That is not right either. The bottom line is that firearms meant to use BP should be shot with BP. I personally tried Pyrodex - once - and it did not smell bad enough to suit me. I have not given any of the current BP substitutes any thought at all.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I have acase of KIK "just in case" but choose to shoot Pyrodex RS regularly. I get 3" groups at 100 yards with a RB out of a 1/66 twist 32" barrel from both a .54 GPR and a modified Renegade. in addition to several deer, all pass throughs, Ive killed a buffalo with the same load and got tremendous penetration...
I know its fad to bash Pyrodex and thats OK but in reality; Its ALOT cheaper per lb and it has more volue per lb or more shots per lb. It chronographs all the velocity that real BP does thus all the energy in a same sized ball/load. And it stores just fine per my 6 year old cans that I shoot from curently..
For those that like "real" BP, more power to ya. But Pyrodex is not the problem. Prehaps some modifictaions to the load elsewhere might have soleved your concerns?
Either way, you are happy and that is good. :v

 

[ebiggs1]

It is easy to draw the wrong conclusion when observing events. Lots of folks do it all the time. You did, too! :hmm:
And, geez, that was a long post.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Your own experiences and conclusions seem to answer your questions. Pyrodex is hard to ignite and is very corrosive.
And, don't forget this ml madness is an attempt to preserve history. Only using bp can correctly fill that gap in the process.
Only you can decide which way you will go on this matter.
BTW, the 'penetration' issue is a big non-issue. And another one of 'those' subjects. :stir:

 

[Golfswithwolves]

Pyrodex is the first step on the road to zip guns. (in memory of Paul V.) :wink:

 

[cynthialee]

I prefer black powder over pyrodex for a very differant reason.

Pyrodex smells like satans hindquarters durring clean up. Black powder has a normal stink that I can deal with.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I prefer black powder over pyrodex for a very differant reason.

Pyrodex smells like satans hindquarters durring clean up. Black powder has a normal stink that I can deal with.

I wont ask you how you know that... :wink: :grin:

 

[George T.]

I know in real cold climate modern rifles do better with hotter primers so I use the Magnum precussion caps just in case. I have to admit I do very little target work when it's cold! Geo. T.

 

[gl1200a]

"Pyrodex ALOT cheaper than Kik"????????

I think NOT.

 

[Zonie]

I don't know what KIK costs but a little looking on the web says a pound of Pyrodex can be bought for $18.

The volume of Pyrodex needed per shot is the same as real black powder but because Pyrodex weighs about 30 percent less per cc or cubic inch the actual weight of any load by volume of Pyrodex will actually weigh 30 percent less.

That results in giving about 30 percent more shots per pound.

So, if Pyrodex costs $18/pound, KIK would have to cost less than $12.60/pound before it would cost less per shot. :hmm:

 

[gl1200a]

12 otd.

 

[rafterob]

Pyrodex is the first step on the road to zip guns.

It can also be the first step on the road to Real Black Powder, it was in my case.

 

[ebiggs1]

Pyrodex is the first step on the road to zip guns. (in memory of Paul V.) :wink:

Or, Pyrodex is the first step on the road "from" zip guns. :shocked2:

 

[Little Wattsy]

I don't know what KIK costs but a little looking on the web says a pound of Pyrodex can be bought for $18.

The volume of Pyrodex needed per shot is the same as real black powder but because Pyrodex weighs about 30 percent less per cc or cubic inch the actual weight of any load by volume of Pyrodex will actually weigh 30 percent less.

That results in giving about 30 percent more shots per pound.

So, if Pyrodex costs $18/pound, KIK would have to cost less than $12.60/pound before it would cost less per shot. :hmm:

Pyeo is $13.95 in my local "Bi-Mart" store. The last KIK I bought was near $12.00 ($11.95??) at CASE price If I recall from 3 years ago PLUS hazmat to get it here. So I guess it relative but but for here in Oregon ill say noticeably cheaper. :wink:

 

[Little Wattsy]

Pyrodex is the first step on the road to zip guns. (in memory of Paul V.) :wink:

Or, Pyrodex is the first step on the road "from" zip guns. :shocked2:

Thats probably more accurate; At least it was for me....

 

[Dphar]

Here is a little test everyone using a corrosive substitute powder should conduct.
Take a 1/8" x 1.5" X 12" bar of steel polish it bright on one side and completely degrease it with lots of denatured alcohol etc.
Now place a sheet of paper over 1/2 the bar and flash 5 grains of one powder on the open end. Now cover the fouling and flash the other powder on the other end. This is to prevent cross contamination.
I suggest starting with black powder and P-dex.
Place the bar on shelf in the house at room temp and typical humidity. Leave it for a week or two.

Yeah, nobody leaves a gun dirty this long...
But the corrosion is CUMULATIVE.
Some powders are non-corrosive. Some are not.
It is possible to use one in particular for a while, or even just one pound, and see SERIOUS damage to the gun. Pitting in the bore that makes the use of BP impractical for example.
BTW at humidity levels under about 30% real BP fouling will not attract enough moisture to be corrosive.
Dan

 

[Billnpatti]

Danny, thank you for your input and for all of the good info. I am always glad when someone tells me that he is sold on real black powder. Keep shooting and keep sharing. You sometimes will find someone on the Forum who will disagree with you. Even when someone disagrees with what you say, they generally do it in a gentlemanly way. Rarely do we have anyone who will "flame" you. It just ain't right and it rarely happens. Stick with us and keep sharing, that's how we all learn. :thumbsup: :hatsoff: