Pyrodex Vs. Traditional Black

[Sparkitoff]

For smoothbore I recently tried RS just because I could get it readily and inexpensively. For dove shoots I go through a lot of powder - about 3500 grains in one shoot (so a can will last about 2 dove shoots). I got instant ignition, did not clean between shots all day (31 shots and 50 shots on two different shoots) and a lot less smoke than the Goex I was using. The birds didn't know the difference. It cleaned up easily with just 4 wet and soapy patches. I was satisfied enough that I am going to use it more often in the smoothbore. Never tried it in a rifle and wont work in my flintlock but for smoothbore I liked it.

 

[Sun City]

Yep! Dan'l Boone ran test and he said "stick with the black" so since me and Dan'l are buddies....I'm sticking wit da black!!

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I crush up small amounts of pyrodex for pan priming.
Seems to work just fine.

SM

 

[Carbon 6]

I crush up small amounts of pyrodex for pan priming.
Seems to work just fine.

SM

Be sure to let us know how it actually works.

 

[Zonie]

I crush up small amounts of pyrodex for pan priming.
Seems to work just fine.

SM

Have you ever actually used real black powder to prime a flintlock?

I ask because even finely ground up Pyrodex just burns rapidly when I light it with a match. In no way does it actually "explode" like real black powder does when it ignites. The Pyrodex I've tested burns very much like smokeless powder out in the open does.

Yes, the flame from the burning Pyrodex might make its way thru the touch hole in a flintlock and succeed in lighting the main powder charge but the times I've tried using it as a prime, it was so S-L-O-W that I deemed it basically worthless.

Real black powder ignites with an explosive POOF, and the speed of the flash drives it force-ably thru the touch hole into the main powder, almost instantly resulting in a very fast ignition.

Likewise, I've accidentally loaded Pyrodex into my flintlocks and the few times it actually fired, it was very slow when compared with real black powder. Usually the flintlock didn't fire with a Pyrodex main charge even with a real black powder prime in the pan.
It's successful firing ratio was about 1 success to 3 failures to fire.

 

[Kansas Kid]

I thought this was settled years ago!

 

[SDSmlf]

does it really matter? Has anyone ever done a Empirical study between the two?
SM

Is this your ‘impirical’ study and evidence to make your argument, or are you holding out on us?

I crush up small amounts of pyrodex for pan priming.
Seems to work just fine.

SM

At least when you eventually actually try it in a flintlock pan and ask for help, the group here will have a good baseline when they attempt to provide that help you.

 

[Eutycus]

Is there a black powder or BP substitute that is not corrosive?

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Have you ever actually used real black powder to prime a flintlock?

I ask because even finely ground up Pyrodex just burns rapidly when I light it with a match. In no way does it actually "explode" like real black powder does when it ignites. The Pyrodex I've tested burns very much like smokeless powder out in the open does.

Yes, the flame from the burning Pyrodex might make its way thru the touch hole in a flintlock and succeed in lighting the main powder charge but the times I've tried using it as a prime, it was so S-L-O-W that I deemed it basically worthless.

Real black powder ignites with an explosive POOF, and the speed of the flash drives it force-ably thru the touch hole into the main powder, almost instantly resulting in a very fast ignition.

Likewise, I've accidentally loaded Pyrodex into my flintlocks and the few times it actually fired, it was very slow when compared with real black powder. Usually the flintlock didn't fire with a Pyrodex main charge even with a real black powder prime in the pan.
It's successful firing ratio was about 1 success to 3 failures to fire.

Zonie, Thanks for your input.I have tried it and have had no ignition problems. It seems to work just as well as priming black.
SM

 

[Grenadier1758]

Is there a black powder or BP substitute that is not corrosive?

Black powder (and the substitutes) are not corrosive. Its the fouling that remains after firing that is corrosive. When these powders are fired the components change and various salts are formed. The corrosive salts are what needs to be cleaned.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Hello All, Thanks to all for your input.
Problem is years ago in NJ here The Legislature decided to rewrite the definition of Black Power reclassifying it to a high explosive even though chemically it is not.
It also resulted in higher fees for the mom and pop shops that carried it.
What was $100.00 for storage permits went up to $1,500 dollars and many places just threw their arms up and no longer carried it. The Pyrodex is widely available so I have to work with what I can get.
You seriously have to be an armchair Lawyer in this State in regards to Laws so you do not run afoul of Authorities.
I still am researching as to wether I can order Black Powder in bulk and having it sent here without jamming myself up. It is a completely different set of variables here when it comes to the shooting sports and the things that go with them.

Best to all.

SM

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Is this your ‘impirical’ study and evidence to make your argument, or are you holding out on us?

At least when you eventually actually try it in a flintlock pan and ask for help, the group here will have a good baseline when they attempt to provide that help you.

I have used it as such and it does work. Maybe not as well as ole black but it does work. Thanks for the input.

SM

 

[Britsmoothy]

Black powder (and the substitutes) are not corrosive. Its the fouling that remains after firing that is corrosive. When these powders are fired the components change and various salts are formed. The corrosive salts are what needs to be cleaned.

Just to add, the residues are quite safe while dry. Being salts they are hygroscopic and it's when they become liquid the corrosion starts.
That is why animal/ vegtable fats/oils should be used during and after shooting. These oils can absorb salts and safely (somewhat) hold them in suspension and avoid greatly water making them a corrosive solution.

 

[TFoley]

The Legislature decided to rewrite the definition of Black Power reclassifying it to a high explosive even though chemically it is not.SM

Funny ol' thing, but the government in the Republic of Ireland ruled that ALL smokeless propellants were also explosive. Their rationale was impeccable, if flying in the face of physics as we know them, Jim.

Seems that because there was no mention of nitro-cellulose-based propellants in the 1888 Explosives Act, which has NOT yet been updated, they do not actually exist, but IF they did, they would probably be as explosive as Black Powder, which categorically does.

As a result, there is only one very small group of elite shooters in the Republic who have been granted special dispensation and licensed to carry out reloading for the purpose of representing their country in international shooting competitions where everybody else DOES reload.

That's forty-ish people...total.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Black powder (and the substitutes) are not corrosive. Its the fouling that remains after firing that is corrosive. When these powders are fired the components change and various salts are formed. The corrosive salts are what needs to be cleaned.

I had loaded a cylinder on my 1858. Seal with cork wads and some hot glue.
It sat for two years. Brought it to the range loaded the cylinder into the frame and all six shots went off. It was pyrodex.


Sm

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Funny ol' thing, but the government in the Republic of Ireland ruled that ALL smokeless propellants were also explosive. Their rationale was impeccable, if flying in the face of physics as we know them, Jim.

Seems that because there was no mention of nitro-cellulose-based propellants in the 1888 Explosives Act, which has NOT yet been updated, they do not actually exist, but IF they did, they would probably be as explosive as Black Powder, which categorically does.

As a result, there is only one very small group of elite shooters in the Republic who have been granted special dispensation and licensed to carry out reloading for the purpose of representing their country in international shooting competitions where everybody else DOES reload.

That's forty-ish people...total.

I always tell folks in our Sport stay informed and stay involved.
Failure to do so leads up to what we have to endure in NJ.
You see its not just Jersey anymore but a national movement to do away with our Hobby of the Shooting Sports.
PA. right now is under the threat of fast track legislation that would affect adversely the rights of the Citizen. The days of not my shotgun or not my Flintlock are long gone. All is fair game now.

SM

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Is this your ‘impirical’ study and evidence to make your argument, or are you holding out on us?

At least when you eventually actually try it in a flintlock pan and ask for help, the group here will have a good baseline when they attempt to provide that help you.

I was just putting it out there so maybe somebody who knows in depth chemistry would comment.
Sm

 

[Carbon 6]

Is there a black powder or BP substitute that is not corrosive?

No.

 

[Carbon 6]

Zonie, Thanks for your input.I have tried it and have had no ignition problems. It seems to work just as well as priming black.
SM

I have used it as such and it does work. Maybe not as well as ole black but it does work. Thanks for the input.

SM

Hang fires and misfires are not acceptable to me.

 

[Eutycus]

Then it pretty much comes down to availability doesn't it?Oh and lets not forget price!