Question about “hunting capable” 28ga loads

[AdamRM]

I have a 28ga Fusil styled gun with a 38” barrel. I only shoot fffg powder since I have a healthy supply of it.

So with my eyesight and only having a front sight, I’ve been limiting myself to 25y shooting while I learn “flintlock fundamentals”

I’ve been shooting 60gr and 80gr loads, with a .535 ball and felt wads above powder and ball. Both of these loads shoot perfectly to aim with all shots touching at 25y.

Now I’m interested in using the gun for hunting deer, and in my area of FL, shots will be rather close, I still need to do some practicing out to 50 yards, but assuming the gun keeps shooting well with both loads, how do you decide which loads have enough power to cleanly take deer? Obviously I’d prefer to have less recoil and stress on the gun. Also saving powder is an important thing nowadays.

So how would you guys decide what powder load is enough power for clean hunting? I’m also understanding there is a point of limited return, pushing a lead sphere at high velocities will cause it to loose power faster once it hits an animal, sometimes a slower ball will penetrate further using its mass more than high velocity to do the job.

- Adam

 

[Sparkitoff]

I would go with accuracy first. If both are exactly the same, I would personally go with the greater charge. You can't have too much velocity or energy. Even a little bit could make a difference in lethality depending on what you hit.

 

[AdamRM]

My main concern is having an ethical kill, reducing recoil is always nice, but I’ve also been concerned that I don’t put too much stress on the gun, it’s not like it has a thick walled octagon barrel.

this stuff is constantly rolling around in my head haha

 

[Britsmoothy]

I think your over thinking it.
Your in the ball park, no pun intended, with the loads you have been shooting.
Go get your deer.

 

[appalichian hunter]

As said the 80 gr. load 50 or under yards, good shot placement, DRT.

 

[AdamRM]

I think your over thinking it.
Your in the ball park, no pun intended, with the loads you have been shooting.
Go get your deer.

Well I do tend to do that haha

 

[AdamRM]

I appreciate all the responses, I’ll stop thinking keep practicing, and go find my deer next year

 

[tenngun]

33 paces, counting let foot only 70 grains three f PRB smooth rifle, dropped my deer this year she ran about thirty yards. I was around fifteen minutes before I walked over to her, and she was DRTshot throug and through both lungs

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I have a 28ga Fusil styled gun with a 38” barrel. I only shoot fffg powder since I have a healthy supply of it.

So with my eyesight and only having a front sight, I’ve been limiting myself to 25y shooting while I learn “flintlock fundamentals”

I’ve been shooting 60gr and 80gr loads, with a .535 ball and felt wads above powder and ball. Both of these loads shoot perfectly to aim with all shots touching at 25y....

So how would you guys decide what powder load is enough power for clean hunting? I’m also understanding there is a point of limited return, pushing a lead sphere at high velocities will cause it to loose power faster once it hits an animal, sometimes a slower ball will penetrate further using its mass more than high velocity to do the job.

Adam,
The old rule for starting out with loads would be to use a load equal to the caliber, and then work up. So that would be 55 grains in your case.

In some states, such as my state of Maryland, the DNR arbitrary minimum load for roundball on deer is 60 grains, which is where you are.

I think you are absolutely fine out to 50 yards, with that distance adjusted to your personal skill. You mentioned eyesight, and that's very ethical of you to figure that variable into the equation. As others have mentioned, concern yourself with accuracy with those two loads.

As for terminal ballistics, that .535 round ball at 50 yards or less with just the 60 grain load will be just fine. I developed my load, now mine is in a rifle so may be a bit faster than the same load from a smoothbore, but..., I took the minimum load of 60 grains in my state, and added 10 grains to make it 70 grains of 3Fg, and tried that out as far as 100 yards. Worked so well I didn't really worry about any other loads.

I appreciate all the responses, I’ll stop thinking keep practicing, and go find my deer next year

Unless you've missed the season where you live this year, IF your shots are touching each other on the target at 25 yards, then I'd simply test to see how far out you can go before the group is unsatisfactory to you..., then I'd go hunt this year and be sure that the deer was closer than that max range when you shoot it.

and of course put some pictures in the hunting section for us..

LD

 

[AdamRM]

Adam,
The old rule for starting out with loads would be to use a load equal to the caliber, and then work up. So that would be 55 grains in your case.

In some states, such as my state of Maryland, the DNR arbitrary minimum load for roundball on deer is 60 grains, which is where you are.

I think you are absolutely fine out to 50 yards, with that distance adjusted to your personal skill. You mentioned eyesight, and that's very ethical of you to figure that variable into the equation. As others have mentioned, concern yourself with accuracy with those two loads.

As for terminal ballistics, that .535 round ball at 50 yards or less with just the 60 grain load will be just fine. I developed my load, now mine is in a rifle so may be a bit faster than the same load from a smoothbore, but..., I took the minimum load of 60 grains in my state, and added 10 grains to make it 70 grains of 3Fg, and tried that out as far as 100 yards. Worked so well I didn't really worry about any other loads.



Unless you've missed the season where you live this year, IF your shots are touching each other on the target at 25 yards, then I'd simply test to see how far out you can go before the group is unsatisfactory to you..., then I'd go hunt this year and be sure that the deer was closer than that max range when you shoot it.

and of course put some pictures in the hunting section for us..

LD

I appreciate the response. I’ve already missed this years blackpowder season, so my main focus is for next year. But I plan on getting a lot practice before then

I’ll keep working with both loads all the way to 50y and see which one keeps hitting the best.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I appreciate the response. I’ve already missed this years blackpowder season, so my main focus is for next year. But I plan on getting a lot practice before then

I’ll keep working with both loads all the way to 50y and see which one keeps hitting the best.

Well the beauty of the muzzleloader is that you can hunt in the muzzleloading season AND the modern gun season here where I live. Is this not the same for you? It's up to you, and if your judgement is that you would like more work on the gun and the load, then bravo for you, but if not then be sure that you're not missing out on a hunt. Our "gun" season starts at the end of this week up here.

LD

 

[AdamRM]

Well the beauty of the muzzleloader is that you can hunt in the muzzleloading season AND the modern gun season here where I live. Is this not the same for you? It's up to you, and if your judgement is that you would like more work on the gun and the load, then bravo for you, but if not then be sure that you're not missing out on a hunt. Our "gun" season starts at the end of this week up here.

LD

Oh yes, it’s similar here. I could also hunt in the modern firearm season. But one of the positives of our black powder season, is not a lot of folks hunt it around here, and I already have an area in mind in one of our national forests where I basically grew up fishing and camping. Once modern firearm starts, it’s not as “peaceful”, lots more people in the woods.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Oh yes, it’s similar here. I could also hunt in the modern firearm season. But one of the positives of our black powder season, is not a lot of folks hunt it around here, and I already have an area in mind in one of our national forests where I basically grew up fishing and camping. Once modern firearm starts, it’s not as “peaceful”, lots more people in the woods.

TELL ME ABOUT IT!

I am luckily on an abandoned "hobby vineyard" about 400 yards from the public hunting area closest to my town.
On opening day the sounds of distant gunfire are akin to Beirut on a Friday night!
It's OK as that pushes deer to the quiet areas, which include where I'm at..., waiting...., in a ground blind....,

Good luck next year...


LD

 

[Jhightow]

I think just to add to what LD has stated, you are more than adequate for taking deer-sized game with that load. If you look at any .50 caliber PRB load data (which abounds due to being so common) you can set a baseline. Reason being is a .50 caliber PRB has taken game all over the world. Certainly anything in North America. Being in Florida, your critters are going to be smaller anyway. That's not a jab either. I'm in SC so I have to listen to all my friends from NY talk about how small our deer are!!

But, load data: Lyman Black Powder Manual, 2nd ed.
.50, 28" bbl, 1-48" twist, Goex FFg, .490 ball (177grains), .015" Ox-Yoke patch
Charge MV ME P(psi) 100ydMV 100ydME
40gr 1196 562 5000 871 298
50gr 1282 646 5100 897 316
60gr 1368 736 5200 922 334 (I use this or the 70gr load.)
70gr 1471 851 5800 951 355
80gr 1573 973 6400 980 378
90gr 1651 1072 7000 1004 396
100gr 1729 1175 7500 1029 416

So as you can see, if you take the "standard" that you need 1000 fpe to ethically kill a whitetail deer, you'd never get there without 90gr+ charges and shooting them with the muzzle touching them! But a simple google search shows people even taking elk and bear with .50 PRBs. Why did the two deer I shot fall over at 7 yds and 28 yds this season with my "anemic" 60 gr load? Simple, you don't need 1000 fpe to kill deer. So a generic number will never mean anything. It is only a way for us to gauge "Is this even responsible?"

We all know that most critters have a hard time walking very far when they can't breathe. We also know that critter have these things called bones. Nasty little things that get in the way of bullets in broadheads. And that on varying animals of different size and species, these vitals and bones are in similar but not the same spots. So shot placement and knowledge of the game animal plays a role in responsible, ethical hunting.

But I digress, you're only asking about load data. I just wanted to add that since I think anytime the question of "ethical" loadings come up, it should be discussed.

But, load data: Lyman Black Powder Manual, 2nd ed.
.54, 32" bbl, 1-60" twist, Goex FFg, .535 ball (230grains), .015" Ox-Yoke patch
Charge MV ME P(psi) 100ydMV 100ydME
40gr 1110 631 3100 859 377
50gr 1224 765 3200 899 413
60gr 1337 913 3400 934 446
70gr 1390 987 3600 950 461
80gr 1442 1062 3800 966 477
90gr 1480 1119 5000 978 488
100gr 1517 1176 6200 990 500

So a brief ballistics, Round balls shed velocity like its hot. The faster they go, the faster they shed velocity. The slower they go, the slower they shed velocity. Also, the heavier the ball (or any projectile), the slower it will shed velocity. So there's a reason that big heavy balls instead of light little ones were used prior to the use of conical bullets for military use. They knew that for some reason big balls are better than little ones at range.

Your heavier ball will take a 60 gr charge and carry more velocity at 100 yds better than my .50 cal ball at 100 yds. I'll start faster, but lose velocity quicker. And in terms of energy, velocity has far more effect than mass. E=(1/2) m * v^2. \

As far as pressure is concerned, a larger bore diameter will tend to have less pressure for the same charge of powder than a smaller diameter. It has to do with the expansion of gases and the volume increase as the projectile moves down the bore. As they cylinder (amount of bore filled with burning powder and hot gases) grows in length (bullet moving down the bore), a larger diameter cylinder will increase in volume faster than a smaller diameter. I don't know what your barrel is proofed at, but you should be more than fine. If you are still concerned, I would look at what the standard 28ga shot loads are and compare to the single projectile loads above.

As far as what is an ethical or responsible load, that's up to you. Myself and LD would recommend 60 -70gr charges. There's a ton of .50 cal PRB shooters that would recommend 70gr for anything inside 100yds. It comes down to what you feel is good for you.

Hopefully this wasn't too long or came across as condescending. Just want to put the right information in your hands.
I'd get out there and hunt during the normal firearms season at some smaller out of the way WMA. Find the sanctuaries where they feel safe and let others push them to you. Good luck!

 

[AdamRM]

I sorta “knew” bits of that technical side of the discussion but you really laid it out nicely, that helped quite a bit to understand stuff I always heard.

I really appreciate it and that all makes a lot of sense.

Thanks

I think just to add to what LD has stated, you are more than adequate for taking deer-sized game with that load. If you look at any .50 caliber PRB load data (which abounds due to being so common) you can set a baseline. Reason being is a .50 caliber PRB has taken game all over the world. Certainly anything in North America. Being in Florida, your critters are going to be smaller anyway. That's not a jab either. I'm in SC so I have to listen to all my friends from NY talk about how small our deer are!!

But, load data: Lyman Black Powder Manual, 2nd ed.
.50, 28" bbl, 1-48" twist, Goex FFg, .490 ball (177grains), .015" Ox-Yoke patch
Charge MV ME P(psi) 100ydMV 100ydME
40gr 1196 562 5000 871 298
50gr 1282 646 5100 897 316
60gr 1368 736 5200 922 334 (I use this or the 70gr load.)
70gr 1471 851 5800 951 355
80gr 1573 973 6400 980 378
90gr 1651 1072 7000 1004 396
100gr 1729 1175 7500 1029 416

So as you can see, if you take the "standard" that you need 1000 fpe to ethically kill a whitetail deer, you'd never get there without 90gr+ charges and shooting them with the muzzle touching them! But a simple google search shows people even taking elk and bear with .50 PRBs. Why did the two deer I shot fall over at 7 yds and 28 yds this season with my "anemic" 60 gr load? Simple, you don't need 1000 fpe to kill deer. So a generic number will never mean anything. It is only a way for us to gauge "Is this even responsible?"

We all know that most critters have a hard time walking very far when they can't breathe. We also know that critter have these things called bones. Nasty little things that get in the way of bullets in broadheads. And that on varying animals of different size and species, these vitals and bones are in similar but not the same spots. So shot placement and knowledge of the game animal plays a role in responsible, ethical hunting.

But I digress, you're only asking about load data. I just wanted to add that since I think anytime the question of "ethical" loadings come up, it should be discussed.

But, load data: Lyman Black Powder Manual, 2nd ed.
.54, 32" bbl, 1-60" twist, Goex FFg, .535 ball (230grains), .015" Ox-Yoke patch
Charge MV ME P(psi) 100ydMV 100ydME
40gr 1110 631 3100 859 377
50gr 1224 765 3200 899 413
60gr 1337 913 3400 934 446
70gr 1390 987 3600 950 461
80gr 1442 1062 3800 966 477
90gr 1480 1119 5000 978 488
100gr 1517 1176 6200 990 500

So a brief ballistics, Round balls shed velocity like its hot. The faster they go, the faster they shed velocity. The slower they go, the slower they shed velocity. Also, the heavier the ball (or any projectile), the slower it will shed velocity. So there's a reason that big heavy balls instead of light little ones were used prior to the use of conical bullets for military use. They knew that for some reason big balls are better than little ones at range.

Your heavier ball will take a 60 gr charge and carry more velocity at 100 yds better than my .50 cal ball at 100 yds. I'll start faster, but lose velocity quicker. And in terms of energy, velocity has far more effect than mass. E=(1/2) m * v^2. \

As far as pressure is concerned, a larger bore diameter will tend to have less pressure for the same charge of powder than a smaller diameter. It has to do with the expansion of gases and the volume increase as the projectile moves down the bore. As they cylinder (amount of bore filled with burning powder and hot gases) grows in length (bullet moving down the bore), a larger diameter cylinder will increase in volume faster than a smaller diameter. I don't know what your barrel is proofed at, but you should be more than fine. If you are still concerned, I would look at what the standard 28ga shot loads are and compare to the single projectile loads above.

As far as what is an ethical or responsible load, that's up to you. Myself and LD would recommend 60 -70gr charges. There's a ton of .50 cal PRB shooters that would recommend 70gr for anything inside 100yds. It comes down to what you feel is good for you.

Hopefully this wasn't too long or came across as condescending. Just want to put the right information in your hands.
I'd get out there and hunt during the normal firearms season at some smaller out of the way WMA. Find the sanctuaries where they feel safe and let others push them to you. Good luck!

 

[Jhightow]

Glad to help! It's a good bit to learn and understand. I'm glad I was able to put it into a way that was able to help!

 

[Mike in FL]

A deer shot from a side view is very easy to kill. Your load will pass thru any deer. They are thin skinned and the rib cage is fragile. Big macho guns and loads are overkill.

 

[tenngun]

Keep in mind the service load for a military rife was 60-65 grains 2 f. A rifled musket 75 grains. And they were moving lots of lead. A minie keeps its energy longer, but would get 4” of penetration at extreme range
If Bambi is facing you a .530 ball will pass through chest, and liver. May make it in to guts and that’s a drt
Shot from the side it will be a through and through
Hit spine it’s drt
Hit neck it won’t run far.
Hit liver it’s won’t go far
There is not much that is not a killer.