Question about the Enfield P53 1862 Two Band Musket.

[GO OutDoors]

I have a chance to get 3 gun's but this one stood out to me. I have not seen this gun to inspect it but I am needing some insight on the gun. I am waiting to hear back from him and get more photos. From the photos that I did received it looks like a 2 band that the stock was cut down with the bands removed. I am not sure so that is why I am here asking for.

 

[GO OutDoors]

 

[GO OutDoors]

 

[GO OutDoors]

Like I stated I know very little about this gun. Also wondering what I should offer if I want it and if it is worth getting when I go look at it.

 

[Stantheman86]

Looks like someone "sporterized" it , in period. It's actually really neat.

The value is , in my opinion based on it's shootability and historical "cool factor " since any collectibility has been nuked.

It's status as a "2 Band" isn't really relevant, there might be enough there to restore but it wouldn't be economically feasible and it's a piece of Americana as it is.

I'd pay $400 for that, maybe $500 if it really spoke to me and the bore was shootable. The lock alone is worth probably a couple hundred.

 

[GO OutDoors]

Looks like someone "sporterized" it , in period. It's actually really neat.

The value is , in my opinion based on it's shootability and historical "cool factor " since any collectibility has been nuked.

It's status as a "2 Band" isn't really relevant, there might be enough there to restore but it wouldn't be economically feasible and it's a piece of Americana as it is.

I'd pay $400 for that, maybe $500 if it really spoke to me and the bore was shootable. The lock alone is worth probably a couple hundred.

Just got word that it is a smooth bore and barrel is 39 inch's. I am going to set up a time to look at it soon. Yes that is what I was thinking.

 

[LawrenceA]

They did make a version of the Enfield as a smoothbore for Indian Troops. It was .69 from memory.
You also need to keep in mind that the rifling in the Enfield's was shallow and wide so you may not even notice it with a bit of wear and tear.
Or it may have been bored smooth.
Who knows

Interesting find regardless.

 

[GO OutDoors]

Yes I did some research and they did make a 2 band that looked like the P53 but the marking's on the lock are not the same as is on this one. Also there was markings on the left side of the barrel near the breach. Yes there is a good chance the the rifling is worn or he just can't see it. I will be looking at it this weekend and will post what I have found and if I buy it.

 

[LawrenceA]

Yes the 2 band was provided to the English Navy and had a faster twist than the 3 band.
There was also a number of carbines.
There were a heap of models considering it was a fairly short lived series.
I do not recall one with a patchbox as you have pictured though. I think this has been added.

 

[Stantheman86]

They did make a version of the Enfield as a smoothbore for Indian Troops. It was .69 from memory.
You also need to keep in mind that the rifling in the Enfield's was shallow and wide so you may not even notice it with a bit of wear and tear.
Or it may have been bored smooth.
Who knows

Interesting find regardless.

The Indian "Post Mutiny" muskets were .65, I only know this because I have a weird obsession with them and tried to get Loyalist Arms to make a P59 .65 3-bander for me.

This was likely bored out to be a shotgun, for use as probably a Bird gun, etc. Either it was brought home after the war or bought as dirt cheap surplus from Bannermans.

It looks like theres some kind of rear sight? A P59 Musket would have a simple block sight.

It being a Smoothbore, if it were me , puts this in "parts gun" status unless it looks 100% shootable. Then maybe it's a fun shooter with round balls with some historical flavor .

You're right, Minie rifling is very shallow. Also maybe just the muzzle has rod wear.

Those barrels are made of basically Iron, make sure it's safe. I bought an original P53 years ago that someone bored to about .60ish caliber, it's not safe to shoot and I never got around to getting it lined.

I'd try to get it cheap if it were me and maybe see if you can drop a repro 3-bander barrel into the stock.

 

[GO OutDoors]

The Indian "Post Mutiny" muskets were .65, I only know this because I have a weird obsession with them and tried to get Loyalist Arms to make a P59 .65 3-bander for me.

This was likely bored out to be a shotgun, for use as probably a Bird gun, etc. Either it was brought home after the war or bought as dirt cheap surplus from Bannermans.

It looks like theres some kind of rear sight? A P59 Musket would have a simple block sight.

It being a Smoothbore, if it were me , puts this in "parts gun" status unless it looks 100% shootable. Then maybe it's a fun shooter with round balls with some historical flavor .

You're right, Minie rifling is very shallow. Also maybe just the muzzle has rod wear.

Those barrels are made of basically Iron, make sure it's safe. I bought an original P53 years ago that someone bored to about .60ish caliber, it's not safe to shoot and I never got around to getting it lined.

I'd try to get it cheap if it were me and maybe see if you can drop a repro 3-bander barrel into the stock.

I thought the Indian "Post Mutiny" muskets had different marking's on the lock? As for the 3 band repro barrel the stock on this one was bobbed. None the less It is interesting and would be a nice bird gun if it's safe to shoot. If not a parts gun it will be. He also has 2 more that I need to research. One is unmarked and the other is a 1839 Model 1816 Here is the photo of the 1816

 

[Stantheman86]

These look like guns that J Pettit guy sells, I've bought a few from him over the years.

Usually chopped military muzzleloaders don't bring any big $$$ unless it's something especially rare. Prices have kind of stabilized for Muskets and Rifle-Muskets, etc in shooter grade condition. I just picked up 2 complete but "survivor" grade '61 Springfields for about $1000 each, still less than a Pedersoli.

 

[toot]

after the war a lot of veterans brought there guns home & converter them into shotguns. no need for a musket any more.

 

[jimhallam]

39" barrel ? Can't have been a 2-band.
My main interest is revolvers, but to me this looks very much like an Enfield lock has been used to build a shotgun -- especially with the shape of the butt. Are there any stamps / marks on the barrel -- particularly on the underside?

 

[GO OutDoors]

39" barrel ? Can't have been a 2-band.
My main interest is revolvers, but to me this looks very much like an Enfield lock has been used to build a shotgun -- especially with the shape of the butt. Are there any stamps / marks on the barrel -- particularly on the underside?

That I do not know just yet. I will be looking at it this weekend.

 

[muzzlecap]

They did make a version of the Enfield as a smoothbore for Indian Troops. It was .69 from memory.
You also need to keep in mind that the rifling in the Enfield's was shallow and wide so you may not even notice it with a bit of wear and tear.
Or it may have been bored smooth.
Who knows

Interesting find regardless.

Yes, I have an Enfield 3 band that I've had for several years. When I first got it I swore it was a smoothbore when looking down the bore. The gun needed some breech plug work. I managed to get the old one out and low and behold I discovered that it did indeed have shallow, worn rifling.

 

[Sam squanch]

I would not pay too much for these. The model 1816 is a good parts gun. A bunch of these were modified into inexpensive shotguns by bannerman and others around 1880-1920 for farmers. Some are safe to shoot some are not. I own a few.