Question on assembly of 1858 remy

[msarver]

Shot my new .44 yesterday and had a blast.

Then came the cleaning... not as much fun but still enjoyable. Then came re-assembling it. Everything seemed to go well but now it seems to have TWO half-cocked positions.

The first position functions normally. In the second position, the bolt comes up and locks the cylinder. When slowly bringing the gun to full cock, there are three distinct clicks.

Does anyone have any idea what I did wrong?

Thanks for any help

 

[rafterob]

Yeah, you put something in backwards :rotf: Go to Dixie gun works website, you can download a schematic of the pistol. Very helpful the first few times you take the gun apart and attempt to reassemble it. Then you will learn that you don't need to fully disassemble it after every shooting session. I only do that twice a year.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

You might also try this link. It has good description and pictures of disassembly a NMA revolver

NMA Disassembly

And here is a link for tuning a NMA

Tunning NMA

And you do not have to take the gun apart to clean it. I don't even take the grips off. I can clean two revolvers in less then 20 minutes. Good luck, these are fun guns to shoot.

 

[hawkeye2]

How far back are you bringing the hammer to get the second halfcock position? I have seen a number of Remingtons with factory timing that will lock before full cock is reached and if you bring the hammer back nearly to full cock and then let it foreward to half cock you will find it locked up. Bringing the hammer to full cock and firing after having been in that position won't hurt anything. Is it right? No, but you can live with it if you don't notice any binding specially just before reaching full cock when cocking from the down position. Assume you haven't modified the cam on the hammer or the tail of the bolt (or bent it) and that you have tightened the screw that holds the hand to the hammer

The first click is the trigger passing the half cock, the second click is the bolt snapping past the cam and the third is the full cock. The second click should happen just before the third click and that is when the bolt snaps up to lock the cylinder.

As mentioned it is not necessary to completely dissasemble the gun for normal cleaning. At the most all you should have to do is remove the grips, spray Gun Scrubber, carb cleaner, etc. through it. Let it dry, relube and assemble.

 

[msarver]

How far back are you bringing the hammer to get the second halfcock position?

I started 'fiddling' and found that by adjusting the trigger/bolt spring I can adjust most of it out. When the spring screw is tightened completely the 2nd half cock occurs approximately half way between half cock and full cock. When the screw is loosened a half turn the cylinder won't lock at full cock. When I first got the gun they occurred so close together they must have seemed to be one.

I didn't fiddle with the hammer screw yet to see how that affects it.

As mentioned it is not necessary to completely dissasemble the gun for normal cleaning. At the most all you should have to do is remove the grips, spray Gun Scrubber, carb cleaner, etc. through it. Let it dry, relube and assemble.

In the future, I think I'll try the gun scrubber, carb cleaner. :haha:

Thanks for the help!!

 

[M. De Land]

Might want to check and see of the pawl/hand is properly synchronizing with the ratchet/star on the base of the cylinder.
Are you feeling any binding when you pull the hammer through a cycle or just another click noise? MD

 

[msarver]

No, no binding of the cylinder, trigger or hammer.

It appears to be when and how forcefully the bolt locks up the cylinder. I thought I had it when I started adjusting the trigger/bolt spring but I can't quit get it. The bolt seems to either come up and hit the cyclinder early (at least the thickness of the bolt) before the lug OR the bolt doesn't seem to completely engage the lug in the cylinder.

 

[Zonie]

Just for information, my Uberti .36 cal 1858 Remington New Navy has 4 clicks when it is cocked.

1st click = cylinder bolt retracts, trigger enters half cock notch with a click.

2nd click = cylinder rotates, then cylinder bolt clicks as it hits the outside of the cylinder.

3rd click = hammer enters full cock notch.

4th click = cylinder bolt snaps into notch on cylinder.

Yes, there is a small mark on the cylinder at each cylinder notch where the cylinder bolt has been resting as the cylinder rotates the last 1/16" when the hammer is brought above the full cock notch.

My .44 caliber Armi San Paolo 1858 Remington-Beals Army does the same thing.

IMO, this is normal for a Remington.

 

[M. De Land]

A couple of things that can help with bolt movement consistency common to all revolvers.
1. Using a needle Swiss file,lightly chamfer the interior edge of the bolt window removing any burrs or tool marks. Do not enlarge the hole any amount!
2. With a stone, lightly Chamfer the two radius-ed edge corners of the nose of the bolt and polish the bolt hemisphere with rouge cloth where it will contact the cylinder.
3. Chamfer the side edge corners of bolt notch in the cylinder.Do not enlarge the opening. All you want to do is break the sharp edges and get rid of any burrs.
Usually the bolt should drop and make contact with the cylinder after about 2/3rds of the travel distance because 58 Remington's do not have a lead in cut to the cylinder notches so the bolt drag slows down cylinder rotation inertia before the bolt drops into the notch. This is also why the bolt nose needs to be polished smooth with rouge paper so it won't gall the cylinder after making contact.
This adjustment helps keep the notches from getting "wollered" out because it "breaks" the inertia energy between bolt nose and cylinder notch stop wall.
Bolt drop timing is regulated by the hammer cam and bolt leg shape.
Bolt legs and hammer cams should have some grease on them not just light oil in my opinion. MD

 

[msarver]

Just for information, my Uberti .36 cal 1858 Remington New Navy has 4 clicks when it is cocked.

1st click = cylinder bolt retracts, trigger enters half cock notch with a click.

2nd click = cylinder rotates, then cylinder bolt clicks as it hits the outside of the cylinder.

3rd click = hammer enters full cock notch.

4th click = cylinder bolt snaps into notch on cylinder.

Yes, there is a small mark on the cylinder at each cylinder notch where the cylinder bolt has been resting as the cylinder rotates the last 1/16" when the hammer is brought above the full cock notch.

My .44 caliber Armi San Paolo 1858 Remington-Beals Army does the same thing.

IMO, this is normal for a Remington.

Zonie,
That is exactly what it is doing. Apparently when the gun was new, before firing and disassembly it was tighter and the clicks (2&3 or 3&4) came much closer together where I didn't notice them.

The marks on the cylinder (about 1/8" before the lugs) have started. So if this is normal for a Remington, I'll just ignore it and continue having a blast shooting it.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Zonie]

That sounds like a good idea to me.

As the others have mentioned a person who really knows and understands the fine points of the action can, with enough tinkering, adjust things so they snap into place like a fine watch.

On the other hand, a person who doesn't know exactly what they are doing can easily make things worse.

Happy shooting. :thumbsup: