Questions about browning

[flatcreek]

Stripped the blue off my trade rifle and I'm trying to get it brown. I want to use hot brown because I understand it leaves a smoother finish. I tried BC Plum Brown and the finish would not even up. I prepared it 220, 320, 400 and degreased with brake clean. I heated the barrel to 275* and applied. No matter what I did it would no even out. I stripped it and tried again no luck, don't know what I did wrong and I know it work because I've seen some of the members results Going to give Mark Lee Brown a try now, You only need 150-200* and you heat as you go. Trying to get a hole barrel to 275* takes a lot of heat. Mark Lee instructions recommends etching the barrel by blasting with 150 grit garnet. Now, anyone know what I'm doing wrong with the BC plum brown, anyone etched before browning, anyone used Mark Lee Brown or have any question for me?
Thanks Phil

 

[wiscoaster]

I've used Plum Brown on a pistol barrel:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/my-traditions-kentucky-pistol-build.164450/and it worked really well for me. Reading your description of your results with it I'm guessing maybe you polished the barrel too smooth? Rust browning, as I understand, works best on a lightly scratched surface because it gives the rust some more surface area to grab, and when you card off the excess, you don't take it all off. But that's just a guess based on some YouTube videos, which some here dismiss entirely as BS. And I'm no metallurgist so my understand of the process may be faulty. I found the BC PB worked well at pretty much any temp over and above boiling water. I don't think you need to etch, just thoroughly clean. I used acetone for first clean and then denatured alcohol for subsequent application cleans.

I think the Mark Lee adds an extra complication by the requirement for the boiling water wash. I have some but haven't tried it yet.

Have you looked into the Laurel Mountain Forge product? I'm trying that out on my first rifle build.

 

[flatcreek]

Good looking pistol Wiscoaster. Was also thinking maybe to polished and that maybe why etching is a good thing.

 

[IanH]

Mark Lee Express Brown the way to go for a smooth, durable, simple brown. Don't take it to 200, it will be black. 130 is a nice warm brown on most steels, 150 is pretty dark and where the purple hue starts coming in. TEST first, and do read through the instructions a few times.

The brown will fill in anything finer than 320 to a smooth surface, just use fresh emery and wet (water) sand it out to 320, nothing finer so it has some tooth.

Lock:

It came bead blasted, I just stripped it, cleaned it, and browned only the parts that show, no other surface prep. 140⁰F water, checked with thermometer.

Barrel tang, top flat, and TH flat only, didn't get the water hot enough (120⁰F) and it didn't darken enough to match the 180 year old "patina", but just shows what the Mark Lee Express brown can do.

 

[wiscoaster]

....Was also thinking maybe to polished and that maybe why etching is a good thing.

Ya, OK, I suppose, I was just thinking rub it all over, circular strokes, with some 320 grit.

 

[IanH]

It doesn't matter how you rub it if you go as fine as 320, the browning will level off the surface flat. It will level off most of 220 actually, but there may be a few deeper scratches that show through. If you want to take it to 400 and polish with grey Scotch-Brite to check for file marks, go for it, but do knock it back to at least 320 before browning.

Also, I was a bit misleading with temperature in my previous post: the barrel needs to be heated dry to near 200⁰F to APPLY the solution so it flashes off quickly. Three thin coats with a cotton ball, then card back to an even color, repeat, when you feel like there's enough on there to work with and the carding is becoming hard work, dunk it in warm water for a minute or two, dry it completely, and card again. Don't card it wet! Then heat it back up to near 200 and repeat. About three cycles ought to do it with the water at the same temperature every time.

 

[wiscoaster]

..... Don't card it wet! ....

That's a great nit-picking point, an important one seldom mentioned; thanks for that.

 

[CuNosecap]

I am not sure of the ingredients in brake cleaner, as the OP tried for a degreasing agent. Different brands may have ingredients, or even contaminants that may make the results with browning appear spotty.
You might try either alcohol or acetone as a degreasing agent. Also, Plum brown, and most browning agents seem to work best when applied in long even strokes covering the entire length of the barrel. Streakiness is minimized when long strokes are used, at least in my experience.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

I like a more polished look and have great results using Wahkon Bay True Brown. I made a humidity chamber using PVC pipe and the process takes about one week. TOW has a similar offering, but in my experience their solution is more aggressive and I don't get the polished surface I'm looking for.

 

[rafterob]

400 grit is too fine for BC Plum Brown. 220 is just right. The key is not to try and heat up the whole barrel (unless you have a big oven to put it in). Heat about 18" at a time and hit it with the solution. You should be able to get three flats at a time. It will take at least three coats to get a fairly even finish. It will not look perfect right away. Do the baking soda rinse and dry it off. Then let it sit overnight. Next day it should be slightly fuzzy. "Card" or rub this lightly with steel wool or you can rub more vigorously with denim. Rinse it off again and dry it well. Now oil the barrel liberally and put it aside for 5-7 days to "age". Wash the barrel well with soapy water, rinse and dry. Wax with paste wax and buff. Maintain as you would other guns with a light oiling after each use.

 

[flatcreek]

Tom, I'm also looking for the polished look and understood that you needed hot brown to get it. Apparently that not entirely true. That barrel is beautiful and the polish I'm looking for.
Thanks Phil

 

[rafterob]

As evidenced by Tom A Hawk, above, Humid cabinet browning is the superior method to hot browning. Hot browning may be more convenient if you have limited space or resources.

 

[flatcreek]

The key is not to try and heat up the whole barrel (unless you have a big oven to put it in). Heat about 18" at a time and hit it with the solution. You should be able to get three flats at a time.

I Tried to do the hole barrel at once and it was cooling fast, the areas I cover while it was real hot were better, but still uneven with distinct line between where it reacted and didn't.
Thanks Phil

 

[Flintandsteel]

Cold brown will achieve exactly what you’re looking for. Easier to do, and much more durable.

 

[akroguy]

I go no further than draw filing the barrel then clean (brake cleaner, acetone, whatever). Warm with propane torch and wool dauber on the Plum Brown. It does look streaky and gross initially then as you keep applying, evens out and gets nice and dark. Wipe down with wet cloth and repeat to desired depth of color. Coat barrel in motor oil and let sit. Wipe off excess oil, install in stock, go shoot.

 

[flatcreek]

I have the barrel in white now and I'm going to Kemton and look at the different finishes first hand before I go any farther, so I can decide what I want and find out what's used to do it. Picture are great and I appreciate them and everyones suggestions, but there not like seeing it first hand. Please keep the suggestion and ideas coming and I'll try to give back. I use a wall paper steamer to steam bend wood in my stair business and was thinking that may be great for a humidity chamber or maybe to much humidity? I'll do whatever it take to get it the way I want.
Thanks Phil

 

[wiscoaster]

... maybe to much humidity? ...

The more the better, I'd think. Just account for everything going faster and farther.

 

[IanH]

The more the better, I'd think. Just account for everything going faster and farther.

To a point. If you're slow rust bluing or browning and the metal condenses beads of water that run ("sweat"), it will streak the finish and possibly cause pitted lines.

 

[Snydly]

Done with cold process of Homer Danglers. Super fast and extremely easy.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

I only used Plum Brown one time many years ago and didn't like the results I got. Similar to what you are getting it just wouldn't give an even brown. Since then I have used Laurel Mountain Forge. It is a cold brown which has a degreaser in the formula. you can get any kind of finish you want from something that looks 250 years old to a satin smooth. If you have the equipment you can even get a rust blue.