Questions about Kibler .58 Colonial?

[Pete G]

Check your math...0.772" is more than 3/4".

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Check your math...0.772" is more than 3/4".

Go look at Colerain's website under Barrel Diagrams.

Under the Early American profile, "C"-weight, the waist measurement is listed as 0.772".

At the top of the Barrel Diagram page the written information tells one that a .45 caliber barrel may be had in an "A"-weight, Classic American profile, 42" long barrel. And, the "C"-weight, Classic American profile, 42" long barrel, may be had in a .58 caliber.

What the website doesn't tell you is that both calibers, .45 & .58, are now both available in the 38" long, Early American profile in the "A"-weights & "C"-weights.

0.772" = waist of Early American barrel

0.612" = groove diameter of .58 caliber with 0.016" deep grooves

0.772" - 0.612" = 0.160" ÷ 2 = 0.080"

0.080" = barrel wall thickness of Early American barrel at the waist in .58 caliber

 

[Pete G]

Go look at Colerain's website under Barrel Diagrams.

Under the Early American profile, "C"-weight, the waist measurement is listed as 0.772".

That is diameter, not wall thickness.

 

[SDSmlf]

As far as the barrel wall thicknesses are concerned, I am basing my design against the standard thicknesses that Scott at Colerain uses for the 38", "C"-weight, .58 caliber, Early American barrels with, or without, a gain twist. Apparently, Colerain doesn't feel that they are compromising strength in any way as they have been selling barrels with a 0.772" wall thickness in the waist for some time now.

You made me look. From Colerain website. .772” is thinnest dimension across the flats at the waist, not wall thickness. Also Colerain shows 54 cal as maximum in C weight swamped barrels (except for the heavier Classic American profile).

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Like I said, it's not published in the written information in the website, but in my conversations with Scott he has informed me over a year ago that the same calibers were to be had in the Early American profile in the 38" length. Something you chose to ingnore, as I have now mentioned this at least twice.

In addition, if one were to go to the Current Inventory section of Colerain's website, you will see several 38", "C"-weight, .58 caliber, gain twist barrels fo sale. With a 0.772" diameter waist, and a 0.080" barrel wall thickness.

 

[SOLANCO]

Before your osteoarthritis did you have problems with recoil? If so, how did you handle them?

My early recoil issues (with unmentionables) resolved by improving my gun mount. When I started with BP I found recoil to be less a sharp jolt and more of a push. Getting the butt into my shoulder pocket and pulling it in tight as I acquire the target and fire has been my solution. While I do not have significant arthritis, I have suffered three torn rotator cuffs (not from recoil!) and have been able to shoot comfortably as described.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Before your osteoarthritis did you have problems with recoil? If so, how did you handle them?

My early recoil issues (with unmentionables) resolved by improving my gun mount. When I started with BP I found recoil to be less a sharp jolt and more of a push. Getting the butt into my shoulder pocket and pulling it in tight as I acquire the target and fire has been my solution. While I do not have significant arthritis, I have suffered three torn rotator cuffs (not from recoil!) and have been able to shoot comfortably as described.

SOLANCO

Before I stopped shooting in 1994, I had zero issues with recoil from any of my longrifles. I owned rifles in .45, a .50, and .62 caliber.

All three rifles had Lancaster-style stock designs, which do a fairly good job of sending recoil impulses directly rearwards.

In all three calibers, my max load never exceeded 75 grains of fffg black powder. At the time ('71-'94) I never went searching for heavier loads, because at 70-75 grains, I was getting silver dollar size groups at 100 yards off of a bench. All three barrels, one GAA (.45 caliber), and two Getz, had 1:48" rates of twist. So, recoil in those days, was not really an issue.

The osteoarthritis is a relatively recent thing, the last 2-3 years. At age 67, I am trying to anticipate my body's future needs, not just the present ones.

I was attacked by 3 kids on scooters, Halloween Day 2018, resulting in one right severed rotator cuff tendon, and two partially torn/ stretched rotator cuff tendons. I elected not to under go surgery, but instead do rigorous physical therapy.

 

[dave_person]

Hi RJ,
I get your reasoning, however, Mike's game creeper is a fantasy gun and I still urge you to mount a butt plate on a big bore rifle. My other recommendation is to use either Chambers round-faced English lock or Jim Kibler's colonial lock. The Chambers early Ketland is a good lock but the other two are better. They have taller frizzens and larger flint cocks. They produce sparks even when covered in greasy fouling. The round-faced lock on the rifle I showed fired 671 rounds using only 10 flints without a hang or misfire.

dave

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Hi RJ,
I get your reasoning, however, Mike's game creeper is a fantasy gun and I still urge you to mount a butt plate on a big bore rifle. My other recommendation is to use either Chambers round-faced English lock or Jim Kibler's colonial lock. The Chambers early Ketland is a good lock but the other two are better. They have taller frizzens and larger flint cocks. They produce sparks even when covered in greasy fouling. The round-faced lock on the rifle I showed fired 671 rounds using only 10 flints without a hang or misfire.

dave

Jim Kibler's round-faced English flintlock is definitely at the top of my list of lock choices. To be fine tuned by Brad Emig.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

When I list how someone else has built a rifle that I admire, I don't necessarily mean that I want to copy it in every detail.

That being said, there are certain things that I want a modern flintlock rifle to be able to do, and a contemporary version of an 18th Century rifle is probably going to make more sense for my long-term, ultimate, as-I-age-as-a-hunter's-needs, than a Historically Correct version of the same rifle would.

I am trying to predict what a 80 year old hunter might need, as opposed to a 67 year old hunter.

I might even have to reconsider the hunting of feral hogs, and give up my desire for a .58 caliber patched ball rifle.

 

[dave_person]

Hi RJ,
Here is a picture of a Chambers round-faced English lock that I tuned with a piece of rounded quartz from my driveway substituted for a flint.

It is a very good lock.

dave

 

[EC121]

Here is a rifle of the type you are looking for by Jerry scales and engraved by John Schippers. .60cal. 31" Getz barrel.

Chambers roundfaced lock that is smooth and fast. Also easy on flints, and lightweight. The slim wrist makes it easy to carry.

 

[rich pierce]

It’s fun to design something super custom. I have a couple thoughts about the project.

The gain twist accuracy will not often matter out in the field under live conditions. Pigs move, there’s cover, and one may not be shooting from a bench. I can’t shoot short barreled guns as well as long barreled guns. It seems rare to hunt pigs and get shots over 75 yards. So, grouping 1/4” tighter at 100 yards may or may not be worth complicated efforts. I’ve never seen gain twist barrels shot head to head with standard rifling by the same shooter in the same gun on the same day but it’s fun to think it would be more accurate. Maybe 1 in 25 shooters at local monthly matches - guys shooting competitively for 30 or more years - could notice improvement from what they are currently shooting including 40 pound bench rifles, false muzzles, weighed charges and balls, long tube funnels for the charge, seating the ball to exact pressures, and so on. These guys can shoot an Ed Rayl or Rice barreled standard weight hunting rifle into 3” groups every day at 100 yards. Using the same rifling and barrel maker in a heavier, longer barrel will have them getting under 2” regularly unless it’s windy. When they want a truly accurate barrel they often go to a custom barrel maker not well known outside of target shooting circles.

Shortening a swamped barrel will necessitate a very tall front sight. Very very tall. Also, a light gun under 7 pounds is going to kick like the devil.

I know of guys who hunt pigs successfully on foot with primitive bows. Sometimes using stone points. Also a few killed using atlatl. Up close and personal. But, as I said, it’s fun to build up a scenario in our heads then design the perfect flintlock for us to have in that situation. Having fun is the main thing. I hope you get to hunt pigs with a custom gun and have great success.

 

[Zutt-man]

The Kibler Colonial barrels of 50-58 cal all have identical exterior dimensions enabling interchangeability with the same stock/components. I have both a 50 cal and 58 barrels for my rifle. Fit is exact.

Owning both a 58 and a 62 caliber, I’m not so sure that the “view would be worth the climb”, machining the Kibler 58 cal to a 62 cal. If a gain twist produced additional accuracy, it would be hard to realize it, at least given the performance of my 58 Kibler barrel. I get great accuracy without swabbing for at least 12-15 shots, and it’s usually the carbon ring formation that dictates the need to swab as opposed to eroded accuracy, or difficult loading due to main barrel fouling.

What does your load look like for your Kibler .58? I ordered mine just today

Edit: Never mind, I saw your reply above with your load specifics!