Questions about powders and gn's

[Diz9000]

Hi all,

Let me start by saying , I am a newcomer to muzzle load shooting.

Recently I purchased a T/C Hawken and with the help of some fellow shooters, they soon helped me get started with triple 7 powder and shooting maxi-balls.

Until today , I have been using a friends powder dispenser for filling my plastic vials. He told me , one pull of his pistol ( Ruger o a ) and three pulls for his T/C Renegade .54 cal.
Seemed to work fine and with my .54 Hawken I was soon getting 2 inch groups at 30 yds.

Today , I decided to load my vials at home, checked using a brass powder measure and came out as 40gn's of triple 7.
Decided to check the weight more accurately with a set of scales and it came up as 30gn's

Hence my confusion. Am I right in thinking that the brass powder measure is for black powder ? And that the volume measured density of triple 7 is different than that of black powder hence the difference in the two readings.

Many Thanks
Diz ( a UK muzzle loader )

 

[rodwha]

Yes. Powder measures are designed to dispense what is grains of weight of black powder. As substitute powders weigh less these are volume equivalent. A rifle measure will be graduated for grains of weight for 2F typically which weighs just a little less than 3F.

Using my rifle measure to weigh my 3F pistol charges I found that my "30 grn" charge for my NMA is about 32 grns and my "35 grn" charge for my ROA is closer to 38 grns. These charges weigh a fair bit less when I measure Triple 7.

 

[Diz9000]

Thanks for the reply and confirming what I'd thought.
Something must of leaked into my old brain from somewhere .

Of course that leads to a follow up question ,

Should I measure my triple 7, by volume or by weight ?? I'm assuming by weight :grin: but always best to get 2nd opinion .

Shooting at 30yds gives me a nice tight group, I'm wondering, when I start shooting the 50 yd targets , will I need to up my powder ??

 

[cynthialee]

Measure your substitute powders by volume not weight.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Equal volumes of most substitutes will yield greater pressures and velocities than the same in real BP too (assuming equal granulation). So it's often advised to back off your powder charge 5%-10% when making the switch from BP to a sub. Work up your loads from there.

 

[cynthialee]

Equal volumes of most substitutes will yield greater pressures and velocities than the same in real BP too (assuming equal granulation). So it's often advised to back off your powder charge 5%-10% when making the switch from BP to a sub. Work up your loads from there.

I have had it drilled in my head for years that substitutes are to be measured by volume on an equal measure to what you would have shot black powder and to use the same granulation (rifle, pistol powders), except in the case of 777 and then you have to back off some.

 

[rodwha]

The reduction by 15% was never about safety nor excessive pressures. It was only to achieve the velocity that standard BP achieved. Now we have access to more energetic powders such as Swiss and Olde Eynsford which barely outpace Triple 7 when comparing by volume.

 

[rodwha]

You can most certainly measure by volume your substitute powder weigh it and from then on use that weight for consistency.

Unless one were making paper cartridges or filling loading devices this would be a bit tedious and hard to do if it were breezy.

 

[Diz9000]

Thanks for all the advice.

I measured by volume , then double checked by weight ( i.e. all the vials weigh the same. )

From looking on tca website at the Hawken manual, we ( at our club ) are all using very light loads.

Others are shooting .54 cal maxi-ball, I shoot the maxi-ball (lubed) or patched ball.

We have recently come into possession of .54 REAL bullet mould ( i.e. , I bought it as others had the other moulds lol )
Btw in case anyone's not aware, REAL = Rifling Engaged At Loading

Can anyone recommend site for loads for REAL bullets.

Cheers
Diz

 

[hanshi]

Although we talk of loading muzzleloaders with "X" grains of black powder, BP is actually measured by volume. Any measure set for an amount of black may or may not yield that weight; doesn't matter. Substitutes are also measured by volume same as BP. Find your best load of powder and THEN you can weigh it; but you'll still be measuring by volume. Generally, you should drop back a few % when using subs.

 

[rodwha]

This is specifically what Hodgdon had to say concerning the reduction by 15%:

"Triple Seven is a high energy product designed to provide the muzzleloading hunter with higher velocities when used in the same VOLUME as blackpowder. To duplicate a blackpowder load velocity using Triple Seven, you must decrease the powder charge by 15%."

They've updated their site and I can't find any of the prior warnings concerning loose powder.