Questions from a Noobe

[inisfree1]

Looks like this is the place to get all my questions answered...such a fine bunch of gals and guys that love black powder. I just picked up a 1851 colt navy 36 cal brass and have a bunch of questions before heading out to the range.

1. What I have been able to find out on the net is that 15-18 gr is the best all around load for the gun. How do you do that and still be able to seat the bullet flush with the powder. I was not planning on using a wad but is that my only and best option.
2. Can you use a small plastic vile bottle as a speed loader. I have a whole bunch of those that hold the same as the 38 case. I have read that black powder is static sensitive but I will be using black powder substitute.
3. I have been reading that the brass revolvers stretch if you use hot loads. Is this an urban myth. I will only be shooting about 24 rounds a week out of it. I am 64 years old so will I outlast the gun if I shoot 22 gr. thanks in advance....cheers from the south.

 

[Many Klatch]

15 grains of powder should be a good load. I shoot 25 out of my steel framed Remington 44's although it will hold up to 35 grains. You will know if you have put too much powder in the chamber if the ball won't seat.

The brass frames will deform due to repeated use of full charges. If you use less you should get years of use.

The static charge problem is a myth. But you will probably find that a powder horn and a measure will be easier and quicker to use.

Build a loading stand for safety. Without the stand you wind up pointing a loaded gun all over while you load the chambers.

I like the ease of using wads. As long as the balls leave a ring of lead at the chamber and you have either a wad under the ball or grease over the ball you probably won't have a problem with chain fire.

You will want to get a set of Ampco nipples from TOW to help with keeping the caps on the nipples.

Welcome to the forum and have fun with your new gun.

Many Klatch

 

[Billnpatti]

Amen to what Mr. Klatch said.

 

[cynthialee]

welcome aboard!
If that is a brand new gun with factory nipples, replace them with the Ampco nipples, if it is a second hand gun, it may already have good nipples on it.

That .36 is actually pretty stout. It will take allot of heavy loads to hurt it. But there is no need for heavy loads. 15-18 grains of 3F is perfect.
(I load my .44 brass frame 1851 with 22-25 grains of 3 F and it is fine.)

 

[tward2]

I have a Ruger Old Army and shoot 30-35 grains of powder so the ball seats just fine. With very light loads instead of a wad you can use filler such as corn meal...I have never used either.

I've never used a loading stand either, I just hold the gun with my left hand around the cylinder and trigger guard so the gun is vertical, pour from the measure and put the ball in. Then set the gun down in a safe direction to fill the measure again.

When I first got the gun I sealed each chamber with Crisco but have since switched to wonder wads under each ball...much cleaner to use.

Also have a triple K holster with a 2" wide belt from Track of the Wolf.

 

[cynthialee]

When I load I take the cylender off the pistol and load every chamber with powder, corn meal then a wad. Once all the wads are in place I put the cylider back in the gun and seat the balls. Then carefully grease chambers and cap it. Fire away.

 

[RADeO]

2. Can you use a small plastic vile bottle as a speed loader. I have a whole bunch of those that hold the same as the 38 case.

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the addiction. :grin:

The small plastic vials you mentioned should work just fine for you as containers for pre-measured powder charges. I have found them quite handy except that some competitions do not allow pre-measured charges. If you don't shoot in such events, who cares? Use 'em to your heart's content! :thumbsup:

I concur with what previous posters have stated regarding nipples, etc. Lots of good info there.

 

[crockett]

One guy I know shoots mild loads in a brass frame Navy and after 25,000 rounds- no stretching :grin: The general feeling now is that you ought not pour powder from a flask directly into a chamber so using a bunch of empty shell casings as inidividual powder holders would work fine. On the charge, during the Civil War the Northern load was about 17 gr so an 18 gr load shouldn't be considered just a target load. You can cram 22 gr into a Navy and still seat the ball but there's little reason to do so. One BIG thing is NO SPACE BETWEEN POWDER AND BALL so seat the ball deep enough to hear a crunch as the ball slightly compacts the powder. The theory is that best accuracy is obtained when the ball is just at the front end of the chamber but with 18 gr you are close enough to be fine. Wads are less messy than using crisco but crisco is cheap and fine to get started, bring a spare towel to wipe your hands if you use fingers to fill the ends of the chamber with the crisco.
Try the nipples that came with the gun, the caps need to fit the nipple properly. If you get a cap that doesn't fire wait a minute or two and rotate the cylinder around so you are back on that chamber and try again, if the cap goes off it usually means the first time the cap wasn't all the way down on the nipple and the fall of the hammer just seated the cap.
You can use a loading stand but to start just do it with the gun's loading lever.
1. Start of day: with the gun empty put a cap on each nipple and fire to test caps and to burn off any grease in the area.
2. Wait a minute
3. Using your tubes, load one chamber, add the ball on top, use the lever until you hear the crunch.
4. Repeat with each chamber.
5. Fill chamber ends with Crisco.
6. With gun pointed down range cap the nipples and you are good to go.
7. After firing all chambers wait a minute or so before reloading.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the Forum.

You've received good answers from all.

15-18 grains of powder will work well.

The ball can be seated below the face of the cylinder without having much, if any effect on the guns accuracy. The important thing is to make sure the ball is sitting right on top of the powder load. Most of the loading levers will do this even with the light powder loads.

The static charge problem is a urban myth. Schuetzen, Swiss, KIK and most of the other compaines that produce and sell real black powder are packaging their powder in plastic bottles.

Yes, heavy powder loads can damage brass framed guns. This is more true with the .44 caliber revolvers than it is with the .36 caliber guns.
The damage from heavy powder loads usually causes the cylinder arbor on the Colt style guns to pull loose or, the rear of the cylinder hammers itself into the recoil shield creating excessive looseness.
With the powder loads your planning on, don't worry about it. Just have fun.

Oh. I wouldn't change the nipples until I had given them a chance. They will probably work fine if your caps fit them like they should.

If the cap cannot be pressed all the way onto the cone with your finger, use a small flat file and an electric drill rotate the nipple and to file off just a small bit of the cone diameter.
This usually will solve most of the problems.

 

[inisfree1]

Thanks for all the great info. Going to my reloading store tomorrow to pick up some stuff. Things are getting pretty scarce out there but he said he can get me going. On the 18 gr load. I have a powder flask with a 30 gr spout. A 38 case holds about 22 gr and a 9mm holds about 13. I will be picking up Pyrodex fff so my figuring is to fill up my viles with 1 1/3 9mm casings. Does that seem like a good load to start with. I'm trying to get to around 15-17 gr.

 

[Atlast357]

As a new BP shooter also, I had the same reservations about the brass concerns and started with 25 grains of fff mine is a .44. So
I topped the powder with 10 grns of corn meal and then the ball all sealed with Crisco.
The wind conditions made poring powder from a measurer a little dicy. My next outing switched to cigarette paper wrapped cartridge, then the ball no grease, poked through the nipple with a paper clip to make sure powder would be ignited and not just burn paper. Pushed on the #11 cap fired.
No loading stand no mess just fun.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Ruger94, do not use the 1 and 1/3 measure. Take a 38 special case and cut if off at the point where it holds 18 grains. You will get better results if your measure is as accurate as you can make it. Black powder isn't finicky but you every little bit of precision will help. Hopefully the dealer you are going to see will have an adjustable measure to sell.

 

[M. De Land]

A separate cylinder loader is real handy to have. Since seeing them used at matches and building my own I almost never use the gun loading lever any more, especially on the Remington and Ruger
You don't need a loading stand when using one either.

I'm quite sure they add to accuracy as well because the ball and load are compressed exactly the same each time.That doesn't happen with the gun loading lever.MD

 

[Zonie]

If your measuring the thrown weight of Pyrodex on your scale beware!
Pyrodex only weighs about 2/3 of the weight of real black powder but a cubic inch of it has the same amount of energy as a cubic inch of real black powder.

If you actually weigh out 18 grains of Pyrodex it will occupy the same volume and produce the pressures and velocity of a 24 grain black powder load.

Although it varies a little, 3Fg black powder weighs about 247 grains per cubic inch.

Water weighs about 250 grains per cubic inch.

Because of the low energy of black powder a grain or two won't make a whole lot of difference so to figure out the volume of a proposed powder measure
a person can fill it with water and weigh that water with their scale.
If the water that filled the measure weighs about 18 grains, the black powder or Pyrodex that fills it will be about a 18 grain powder load.

 

[inisfree1]

Thanks Cannon...I have lots of 38s to play with and an electronic scale to get it right on. Bring on the water...cheers :bow: