Ramrod help

[French Colonial]

You're a genius......Removed front lock screw and she went in perfect.... I suppose this is how you learn!

Now, take the lock off and get a good flashlight and look through the lock bolt hole and see how much of the ramrod is obstructing the hole. If its about half you can file off some of the bolt and it will work fine, if not on to other fixes.

 

[Jeffsheyn]

Thought you guys would like this. I’m going to wedge the last few inches of the rod to get it flush with the barrel.

video doesn’t seem to work -

 

[Crow-Feather]

Brand new to muzzleloaders… bough this flintlock last week and noticed the ramrod would disappear inside an empty barrel. Ordered a new ramrod cut it off where I could get 3 fingers on it in an empty barrel.

what I’m finding is the storage hole doesn’t appear to be long enough! Is is possible to drill it deeper now. I mean I knows possible … it’s wood.
The picture is of the new rod bottomed out in an empty barrel and also bottomed out in storage… looks pretty funny worst case scenario I’m handing a flag from it!

They have a "T" handle that extends the length of the ramrod when loading and cleaning. Treso have them. It would probably extend the rod enough when you need it. If you need longer, thread adapters will extend the length. T handle part # 11 79 08

 

[martin9]

what does wedge the last few inches mean? I've built a couple guns where the lock bolt had to be notched. Very common on really skinny rifles

 

[French Colonial]

Thought you guys would like this. I’m going to wedge the last few inches of the rod to get it flush with the barrel.

video doesn’t seem to work -

I would notch the bolt before I cut off any of the sides of the ramrod, been there, done that.

 

[Jeffsheyn]

what does wedge the last few inches mean? I've built a couple guns where the lock bolt had to be notched. Very common on really skinny rifles

If you look at the vid only a little big of the front screw was protruding into the channel.

 

[Jeffsheyn]

I would notch the bolt before I cut off any of the sides of the ramrod, been there, done that.

how come? I can't imagine the rod integrity is comprised…. It’s not thin that it hurts my hand to use.

I’m new teach me!!

 

[rafterob]

That fix is probably fine, just that most here would have modified the screw to allow the rod to slip under it.

 

[French Colonial]

The bolt tightens up to the same place pretty much every time so you only have to deal with it when cleaning and removing the lock.
You use the ramrod a lot more, every time you shoot, wipe, clean you are either pulling or pushing on it and eventually you will want to grip that entire rod, not just the half that is left after thinning it down.
At least for me, I would rather have a notched bolt.

 

[Jeffsheyn]

The bolt tightens up to the same place pretty much every time so you only have to deal with it when cleaning and removing the lock.
You use the ramrod a lot more, every time you shoot, wipe, clean you are either pulling or pushing on it and eventually you will want to grip that entire rod, not just the half that is left after thinning it down.
At least for me, I would rather have a notched bolt.

thanks for explaining it. I bought 4 ramrod blanks just in case I messed this one up I’m going to give this a go and buy a few
screws amd try notching the screw!

 

[French Colonial]

thanks for explaining it. I bought 4 ramrod blanks just in case I messed this one up I’m going to give this a go and buy a few
screws amd try notching the screw!

You can remove just a part of the screw and have plenty left for strength.
Pay attention to the bolt orientation when its snug and mark it on the head so you know which side to notch, a little lipstick or something similar on the end of the ramrod and push that down there and when you remove the bolt you will know exactly where its hitting.

 

[Bergmann]

I positive the barrel and the the ramrod hole are clear of any debris.

I’m simply out of room. I would love it to be flush with the barrel but then it’ll be 4” short

Measure the depth of the hole. If it stops before the face of the breech you can, with care, drill at least that far! If the gun is flint and the rod stops at the front lock bolt you may be out of luck - although there is a fix which will eliminate that bolt and let you drill deeper! If the hole was drilled properly ( as far as I am concerned) it also should veer towards the lock bolt side, away from the lock! If it is straight use extreme care and stop if the point intrudes into the mainspring cavity! If the intrusion isn't too great there is a fix for that, too! Taper the rod for a few inches!
A ramrod which sticks out too far past the muzzle isn't conducive "running through the woods"! Also; It doesn't make sense to me that the ramrod tip would be at the muzzle! More likely it would be in the hole! The reason being: If one is hunting (or fighting off an attack) under low hanging tree limbs the rod can be pulled straight out of the gun for reloading! With the tip at the muzzle, the rod must be pulled and twirled around in order to make use of the tip for reloading. That's not always easy to do in heavy brush and, when one's life was in danger, that extra step might prove deadly! But I also doubt ramrod tips were all that common "back in the day". Perhaps someone on here has done more study into that matter than I have and can shed more light on that subject?

 

[oldwood]

I've read a ton of actual testimonials from the 18th century involving using m/l's. Never is mentioned anything about ramrods. The most mentioned item is when the gun fails to fire in the heat of some event. Damp priming in the pan , bloody priming , main charge won't ignite , etc.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I'm not a genius. I've just accumulated a lot of experience.

Don't believe it, man. He's a genius!

Ramrods on old rifles were frequently, if not generally, tapered to a smaller diameter on the end that goes into the stock in order to clear that front lock bolt. The front bolt is there to help stabilize the lock, but if the lock is properly inletted, I don't think that front bolt is entirely necessary. I have a flintlock fowling piece with one lock bolt and there have been no issues related to the single bolt.

I would start by tapering the end of the ramrod down some. You may have to make a new rod from a blank, if the original rod has a metal fitting on the end. If that doesn't do the trick, you can use a chainsaw file and cut a little crescent out of the screw body where it passes through the ramrod channel. Use the slot in the screw head to index the screw.

As @PathfinderNC pointed out, a lot of southern rifles had ramrods in place that protruded past the muzzle. Here is an example:

Many southern rifles had forged iron triggerguards, fastened with screws rather than pins. I think that trait of extra-long appearing ramrods may have been due to the forward triggerguard screw not allowing the rod to go deeper in the stock. Or, it may have just been a southern thing.

I don't think it's a good idea, personally. That protruding ramrod can get caught on things, and in a worst case scenario, this can split the forend of your stock, or tear out the forward ramrod thimble.

The old-time plainsmen, living in areas where there was not any good raw material for ramrods, frequently carried a spare. The best place to carry it was in the bore of the rifle. Long Jack, pictured here, has a spare ramrod that he carries that way:

One final thought is that when you load the rifle, the powder charge and ball will take up a couple of inches in the bore when you ram it, and a jag will also add a little length when you use the rod for cleaning, so the rod need not be excessively long.

Good luck with it! Let us know how this turns out for you.

Notchy Bob

 

[blackeagle]

I only use the rod from the thimbles when I'm hunting, otherwise I use a range rod. A range rod can take more stress than the wooden rod. I'll note that I tried carrying a range rod on a hunting trip once...it's still out there in the woods somewhere.

BTW, lovely curl in that stock!

 

[Jeffsheyn]

Don't believe it, man. He's a genius!

Ramrods on old rifles were frequently, if not generally, tapered to a smaller diameter on the end that goes into the stock in order to clear that front lock bolt. The front bolt is there to help stabilize the lock, but if the lock is properly inletted, I don't think that front bolt is entirely necessary. I have a flintlock fowling piece with one lock bolt and there have been no issues related to the single bolt.

I would start by tapering the end of the ramrod down some. You may have to make a new rod from a blank, if the original rod has a metal fitting on the end. If that doesn't do the trick, you can use a chainsaw file and cut a little crescent out of the screw body where it passes through the ramrod channel. Use the slot in the screw head to index the screw.

As @PathfinderNC pointed out, a lot of southern rifles had ramrods in place that protruded past the muzzle. Here is an example:

View attachment 100680

Many southern rifles had forged iron triggerguards, fastened with screws rather than pins. I think that trait of extra-long appearing ramrods may have been due to the forward triggerguard screw not allowing the rod to go deeper in the stock. Or, it may have just been a southern thing.

I don't think it's a good idea, personally. That protruding ramrod can get caught on things, and in a worst case scenario, this can split the forend of your stock, or tear out the forward ramrod thimble.

The old-time plainsmen, living in areas where there was not any good raw material for ramrods, frequently carried a spare. The best place to carry it was in the bore of the rifle. Long Jack, pictured here, has a spare ramrod that he carries that way:

View attachment 100681

One final thought is that when you load the rifle, the powder charge and ball will take up a couple of inches in the bore when you ram it, and a jag will also add a little length when you use the rod for cleaning, so the rod need not be excessively long.

Good luck with it! Let us know how this turns out for you.

Notchy Bob

Outstanding post Bob! I tapered the rod and everything is as it should be my hand dexterity isn’t what is used to be so it sticking out past the barrel an inch is preferred!

 

[oldwood]

Both of my lock plate screws start out as #10 x 24 Tpi for the reason , the front one can be cut down to a # 8 bolt if the r/r touches it. Put the front #10 bolt in your electric hand drill , and spin it against a file to file away a clearance for the r/r. Also, if you have one, a 1" by 42" belt sander makes the job a snap. Also , since all my builds are from scratch , I cheat and run a just slightly larger than 3 /8 " drill in the finished 3/8" hole to enlarge it to have a better chance of allowing the r/r to pass the front lock bolt.
Think I learned something from this conversation. It just never dawned on me that r/r's sticking out beyond the muzzle just might be because the front lock bolt is in the way of the r/r.. In the 50 years hunting w/m/l's , a protruding r/r seems to catch on brush constantly if carried muzzle down. I still prefer not allowing a r/r to extend more than 2" beyond the muzzle.....................oldwood

 

[Gvilleddie]

Look at the picture of the young fellow with the southern rifle. He’s gonna have to find a stump to stand on to load up. Lol ...

 

[Notchy Bob]

Look at the picture of the young fellow with the southern rifle. He’s gonna have to find a stump to stand on to load up. Lol ...

The old-timers would have said, "He'll grow into it." Meanwhile, he'll probably do just as you said. There's a big old stump right behind him!

I don't think I've ever seen a kid-sized southern rifle.

I love that picture. That's a proud young man, and that look on his face says, "Life is good." He might have raggedy britches and bare feet, but with his rifle in his hand and his pouch and horn at his side, he's ready to take on the world. He appreciates what he has.

Thanks for your comments!

Notchy Bob

 

[Sidney Smith]

Nobody seemed to mention why the rod is disappearing into the barrel. The simple answer to that is, there's no charge of powder and ball inside the bore taking up space. Now the OP didn't say how far in it disappeared, and if I read things right he mentioned it sticking out of the ramrod hole. His video showed the forward lock bolt protruding into the ramrod channel. Yes, you can file away some of the lock bolt. I would not recommend that. It's easier to taper the ramrod the last few inches, and or widening the ramrod channel opposite the lock bolt, to allow more room for the ramrod tip to clear the bolt.

My .32 caliber rifle's ramrod channel veered into the lock mortise. I made a tool out of a piece of steel rod to scrape wood away inside the channel. I will dig out the tool and upload a photo for you to get an idea. It worked beautifully