Random Observations on revolver shooting

[nick_1]

I have seen numerous youtubes about 1858 remis where the expert declared that the civil war soldier favored them because you could switch out the cylinders. never read any accredited historical references to that practice. I have read accounts of bushwackers and jayhawkers carrying multiple six shooters. not sure how often regular calvary did that? I know Union calvalry had the .56 spencer repeting carbines to go with their six shooters so carrying extra ammo for that long gun might have been more favorable that carrying extra six shooters?????

 

[Stantheman86]

I have seen numerous youtubes about 1858 remis where the expert declared that the civil war soldier favored them because you could switch out the cylinders. never read any accredited historical references to that practice. I have read accounts of bushwackers and jayhawkers carrying multiple six shooters. not sure how often regular calvary did that? I know Union calvalry had the .56 spencer repeting carbines to go with their six shooters so carrying extra ammo for that long gun might have been more favorable that carrying extra six shooters?????

Switching cylinders is pure Pale Rider spaghetti western movie stuff

I've heard this c rap so many times over the years, no one wants to hear that cylinders are hand fitted at the factory and would most likely not be able to be used like this.

Not even every Pietta or Uberti cylinder "swaps" and those guns are made with CNC technology.

The only stories I've heard of guys carrying 4-6 revolvers was maybe some of the stories about Confederate raiders who would carry these setups with 4 guns on a belt and two in shoulder holsters so they could just shoot for the entire raid without reloading

 

[DixieTexian]

If you think about it for a second, it kind of makes sense that Colt didn't include a loading lever or anything like that on the Paterson. From out perspective, we are used to revolvers and other guns with multiple shots, but they were going from single shot guns (maybe two of a double barrel) to five shot guns. Five shots probably seemed like overkill at the time and the folks at Colt probably didn't think there was any way there would be a need for more.

 

[Stantheman86]

If you think about it for a second, it kind of makes sense that Colt didn't include a loading lever or anything like that on the Paterson. From out perspective, we are used to revolvers and other guns with multiple shots, but they were going from single shot guns (maybe two of a double barrel) to five shot guns. Five shots probably seemed like overkill at the time and the folks at Colt probably didn't think there was any way there would be a need for more.

Sam Colt probably figured, 5 shots was more than any person would need in any kind of defensive scenario of that time

The use by Texas Rangers was most likely a use he didn't count on at that time.

Even the loading lever on the Walkers kind of seem "bolted on" like maybe Sam intended on it being removable , but added the retaining latch to make them part of the gun. We'll never know. It was the very early days of revolvers and Sam was still working the bugs out of this brand new technology.

 

[Vtmountaindeerhunter]

Its not a mistake anymore. I just like to occasionally load powder through clean out plug after loading ball. It works we are professionals ok

 

[45man]

Time of day will change POI because your shots will "follow the sun." What happens is the target will not be seen where it actually is. The farther you shoot, the worse it gets.

 

[6thtexas]

For what it is worth-
IIRC the Patersons that were passed on to the Rangers from the Navy had originally come with an extra cylinder apiece. I cannot think of any other military purchase where extra cylinders were ever part of the deal, nor have I ever read of any separate orders from any military entity for extra cylinders. Stephen Moore's four volume set of books "The Savage Frontier" about the Texas Republic days is very detailed and is well documented. Moore wrote that the Rangers were not fully equipped with the navy surplus revolvers until 1844. That year Hays and his company had a big moving fight with Comanches near the junction of Sister's Creek and the Guadalupe. During the course of the long battle the Rangers were able to swap cylinders in their revolvers at least once. Hays is quoted that is was not until "after the third round from the five-shooters" that the Comanches fled. Did Hays mean 3 shots or 3 cylinder-fulls-Quien Sabe? Moore also recounts an instance where at the Council House fight in San Antonio one individual's Colt's carbine (also from the navy) would not function. I always wondered if cap fragments caused the problem

 

[Red Owl]

Well, back to the original question. You were shooting one hand, all okay but after a while shots started hitting left. You then :sandbagged" or shot with both hands and still to the left. You then stopped, cleaned the gun and now it shoot dead center. The only factors it would seem is a hot barrel that may simply bend left, fouling from shooting that is causing the problem, some sort of shooter issue, either looking at the sights differently, circling finger, etc.
So...
Can the heat of the gun be the problem?
Can fouling be the problem?
Can the shooter be the problem?
As I said, with me the problem was the shooter. Another tried the revolver and it was fine. 1851 Colt but with steel frame.
Out of curiosity what about barrel heat or fouling?,

 

[45D]

Nope, probably the wedge getting loose. Stopping to clean means disassembly. Reassembly means wedge is probably back where it started. Ya gotta "smack" um good if there going to do their job and STAY.

Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

Well, back to the original question. You were shooting one hand, all okay but after a while shots started hitting left. You then :sandbagged" or shot with both hands and still to the left. You then stopped, cleaned the gun and now it shoot dead center. The only factors it would seem is a hot barrel that may simply bend left, fouling from shooting that is causing the problem, some sort of shooter issue, either looking at the sights differently, circling finger, etc.
So...
Can the heat of the gun be the problem?
Can fouling be the problem?
Can the shooter be the problem?
As I said, with me the problem was the shooter. Another tried the revolver and it was fine. 1851 Colt but with steel frame.
Out of curiosity what about barrel heat or fouling?,

I was ripping rounds out pretty quickly , using a T/C U-View flask to quickly fill chambers with Pyrodex P , shoved in wads and balls and fired 6 more. Rinse and repeat

It is possible that the soft steel used by Pietta in the barrel "bent" just a hair left. Or the filthy barrel changed how the balls acted upon firing

I'll have to sandbag the gun from start to finish and put a bunch of rounds though it, and see it it "wanders over " again

 

[Stantheman86]

Another "random observation " from my research about brass frames, and if they do in fact use "gunmetal #6" alloy the same as Henry uses in their lever guns....

The steel used in steel frame percussion revolvers is soft but still strong enough for blackpowder shooting.

If Pietta is using a better brass alloy, it is very possible that the new brass frames are as durable as the steel frames

I read a claim of 3,000 rounds through two .44 Brassers using 40 grain charges and round balls, by a guy who used them as CAS training guns for the "frontier " stage . He says the gap opened a hair but the guns are still going strong. Sure it's anecdotal "evidence " but still interesting

I've got 1000+ on this brasser , with loads varying all over the place. Half real Black, half Pyrodex P . All round ball. No problems at all .

 

[Gee Dog]

Stan, good tests. Do you see any evidence of peening / coining yet on the recoil shield?

 

[Stantheman86]

Stan, good tests. Do you see any evidence of peening / coining yet on the recoil shield?

None whatsoever, the gun is super slick, well broken in and 100% reliable

I don't plan to intentionally beat on this gun but I'm not going to use 15gr mouse fart loads either

 

[Stantheman86]

I did the "fuzzy math " at say 20 cents per shot , it would cost $600 to put 3,000 rounds through a cap and baller .

So if you hit 6,000 rounds through a brasser, you'll have put $1200 in components through it to shoot those rounds . 4x the cost of the gun and very few people are going to wear out any cap and baller.

You've got to really try to put 1000s of rounds through any gun let alone a hogleg. I have 5,000+ through my Uberti London Navy but I've had it for over 15 years, and I popped off most of those rounds when things were easy to find and burning up a pound of Pyrodex , 200 caps and 200 balls wasn't a big deal

A lot of the perceived issues with stretching out or wearing out a new brass frame Pietta are probably something 99% of owners will never have to worry about

 

[Red Owl]

I had a friend with a Brass Frame Colt 36 clone that put 25,000 rounds through it (I have no reason to doubt him) without any trouble.
On the wedge being at fault- I never thought about it but maybe? Even if using a sandbag- I'd still try with the other hand or have someone else shoot the gun.

 

[Stantheman86]

I had a friend with a Brass Frame Colt 36 clone that put 25,000 rounds through it (I have no reason to doubt him) without any trouble.
On the wedge being at fault- I never thought about it but maybe? Even if using a sandbag- I'd still try with the other hand or have someone else shoot the gun.

25,000 rounds!!!
I'd assume it needed some internal parts at some point

That's a ton of shooting, if I ever have a cap and baller reach 25,000 rounds I'm displaying it in a place of honor in my home

 

[Stantheman86]

I put a quick 60 some odd rounds through my 12" Pietta brasser, I fired every round from 50 yards. I didn't clean or even disassemble the gun , the windage never shifted despite me moving in and out of the sunlight

Every gun is an individual apparently

 

[Dale Lilly]

I have a brass framed 1858 Remington, machine engraved, extensively and very well, and made in Italy. It is marked on the bottom of the butt strap, "FIE Italy." I know FIE was an importer, but do not know who made it. It is dated AC, 1977. I have fired it a bit; it shows pretty extensive use but is in nice shape. The only problem I have had is with the loading lever. When I shoot fairly heavy loads, the lever drops. I think I can fix that but am hesitant to try. The brass is patinaed and will stay that way, bluing is very good for its age. It's one of my favorites to have on display. Not really a six-gun shooter but then..... Polecat

 

[Stantheman86]

I have a brass framed 1858 Remington, machine engraved, extensively and very well, and made in Italy. It is marked on the bottom of the butt strap, "FIE Italy." I know FIE was an importer, but do not know who made it. It is dated AC, 1977. I have fired it a bit; it shows pretty extensive use but is in nice shape. The only problem I have had is with the loading lever. When I shoot fairly heavy loads, the lever drops. I think I can fix that but am hesitant to try. The brass is patinaed and will stay that way, bluing is very good for its age. It's one of my favorites to have on display. Not really a six-gun shooter but then..... Polecat

I'd keep the loads light in that one anyway, the frame is of the older , softer type

Some or all of the FIE's were made by some defunct Italian gunmaker, Perino Ruschetta or something I can't remember

 

[Red Owl]

He may well have redone some internal parts, he was a real gun crank.