Random photos of famous ML percussion/flint guns, or rather guns owned by either famous people or during famous events

[hanshi]

That John Brown Hawken is a magnificent example of a great rifle showing hard use. Too bad it can't talk. Wow!

 

[HighUintas]

That John Brown Hawken is a magnificent example of a great rifle showing hard use. Too bad it can't talk. Wow!

Agreed. Fired a one ounce ball, weighed 12 pounds and was 56.5" long.

You can read his autobiography here: Autobiography of pioneer John Brown, 1820-1896, arranged and published by his son, John Zimmerman Brown. : Brown, John, 1820-1896. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Page 380 has a nice picture of it. I haven't read the whole book, just parts. He mentions this rifle a few times in the book.

 

[Herb]

That photo david-58 posted of the Beckwourth rifle was taken in Jefff Hengesbaugh's office. And anent (I've been waiting to use that word) the Liver-Eating Johnson Hawken, I handled, measured and photographed it at the Cody Museum in December 2018. The barrel is 1.3 inches wide at the snail and 1.218 at the muzzle. The muzzle was .583 in diameter. I ran sized bore-gauges down the bore (which was good) and it measured .537, or .54 caliber. All Hawkens I have seen have some muzzle relief. The curator puts a tapered bore-gauge into the muzzle (there was one on the table) and they think that is the bore. It ain't. I gave the Curator the correct bore diameter, which he ignored. I measured the twist at one inch in 50.8 inches, which is really one in 48 inches. Notice the patina of the relieved bore.

 

[david58]

Stolen? Where did you get that info?

That is unfortunate and a little ironic. There was a gun stolen from a private collection museum owned by Jim Gordon in NM a number of years ago and the owner of the above rifle, Jeff hengesbaugh, helped find and get the thief prosecuted.

Edit: I now see that you've been to Gordon's museum, lucky duck!

It was stolen after a gun show in Texas. I would never have let it out of my sight, but Jeff did like to show it off. Probably in a ditch in Mexico, only a few knew it was Beckworth's. Pretty sad. Lots of fallout from that theft (a trailer load of goods), some real heartbreak.

Yes, I got to do a flash tour of Jim's museum, with Jeff. I am trying to get back in, but I hear Jeff is in ill health right now and have not been able to connect with him. We met him first long ago when we were sutlers, so our visit here was quite fun. You have to be prepared to listen when you visit with him!

We were there on New Year's day, so went back to his place, had a refreshment, and set off the cannon a half dozen times or so. As we left, the local constabulary was coming in to the neighborhood, looking for the source of the explosions. Jeff had deftly pulled the cannon a few feet back from the wall on the courtyard, so they never figgered out what was going on...

David
NM

 

[david58]

I had the pleasure of visiting the Cody museum several years back. It turned in to a two day visit to get through the entire museum. I would love to do it again. Great pictures.

I would like to have had more time. We were kind of hustled through, just too much to see in two hours. My first scratch built hawken was a copy of the Mariano Modena Hawken, which is there, as is his shooting pouch. I was so slack-jawed at what I saw in person I forgot to take pictures - thankfully a friend has pics and measurements of that bag, which will be a winter project for me.

I get sad thinking about where that collection will go when Jim passes.

I would love to get in there again.

David
NM

 

[TFoley]

That photo david-58 posted of the Beckwourth rifle was taken in Jefff Hengesbaugh's office. And anent (I've been waiting to use that word) the Liver-Eating Johnson Hawken, I handled, measured and photographed it at the Cody Museum in December 2018.

Every now and then I like to use the old Low Scots word 'syne', as in 'auld lang....' I've had a few wrinkled brows from that one. As for 'anent', in our house it's pretty common.

 

[waarp8nt]

A photo of Bill Tyler's rifle played by Charlton Heston in the movie Mountain Men. On display at the NRA museum in Fairfax, VA.

 

[Kabulrocks]

Pistol used by Johnny Depp in the Pirates of the Carribbean movies. Displayed at the NRA Firearms Museum in the Bass Pro mothership in Springfield, MO.

 

[Notchy Bob]

What a great thread! I've enjoyed every post!

Here's another one for you...Jedediah Smith's pistol. One of 'em, anyway. His pistols were reportedly taken by the Comanches who killed him at a waterhole. They later traded them in because they were totally unfamiliar with the percussion ignition system. They only understood flintlocks. Someone who knew Jed recognized and identified the pistols. One went missing early on, while the other was kept and later displayed (and photographed), until it, too, went missing, apparently stolen:



Thanks to @HighUintas (posts #17 and 18) for images of the John Brown Hawken. Here are some additional images gleaned from the Internet:


This is a very interesting rifle. I've put together a folder with some articles about it. Mr. Brown and his rifle were written up in The Gun Report (March 1981), in "A Forgotten Saga - The Hawken Rifle on the Southwestern Frontier," by Wayne Austerman, Muzzleloader magazine (May/June 1981), in "John Brown's Hawken Rifle," by Van Potter, and in Muzzle Blasts (February 2020) in "John Brown's Hawken Rifle," by Bob Woodfill. There seems to be some disagreement on its actual bore size, but all agree that this rifle is a beast. Mr. Brown reportedly crossed the plains thirteen times in service of his people, evidently carrying this rifle and riding a black mule named Zeek.

I am not a member of the Mormon faith, but this reminded me of another rifle I found while researching pouches. This elegant percussion longrifle belonged to David W. Patten, an important man of the Church in Missouri:



One remarkable fact about this rifle is that its pouch and horn survived along with it:



For more of this man's story, check out David W. Patten's Rifle, Watch, and Powder Horn.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[chorizo]

That photo david-58 posted of the Beckwourth rifle was taken in Jefff Hengesbaugh's office. And anent (I've been waiting to use that word) the Liver-Eating Johnson Hawken, I handled, measured and photographed it at the Cody Museum in December 2018. The barrel is 1.3 inches wide at the snail and 1.218 at the muzzle. The muzzle was .583 in diameter. I ran sized bore-gauges down the bore (which was good) and it measured .537, or .54 caliber. All Hawkens I have seen have some muzzle relief. The curator puts a tapered bore-gauge into the muzzle (there was one on the table) and they think that is the bore. It ain't. I gave the Curator the correct bore diameter, which he ignored. I measured the twist at one inch in 50.8 inches, which is really one in 48 inches. Notice the patina of the relieved bore.

View attachment 166740

That is GREAT info. Thank you. I thought that 56 cal was odd. Many curators are used to mic-ing the bore to see wear and are totally unaware of the relieved bores on muzzleloaders.

That barrel is a HUNK of steel however.

They are "experts" and hate to be proven wrong.

 

[springfield art]

Purported to be Jim Beckworth's rifle. Gone now, stolen...

View attachment 166353

Hope it gets recovered someday! So unique, it would be hard to "hide"!

 

[springfield art]

That is GREAT info. Thank you. I thought that 56 cal was odd. Many curators are used to mic-ing the bore to see wear and are totally unaware of the relieved bores on muzzleloaders.

That barrel is a HUNK of steel however.

They are "experts" and hate to be proven wrong.

Not to mention measuring land-to-land vs. groove-to-groove vs. land to groove! My head spins!

 

[Notchy Bob]

We can't neglect Jim Bridger's Hawken:

Currently in the possession of the Montana Historical Society. Click this link for more pictures and the story of its chain of custody: Jim Bridger's Hawken

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[ord sgt]

The first photo is the 56 cal Hawken owned by "Liver Eating" Johnson. Bottom rifle in picture of 3. Blow up the picture to read caption under rifle. It can be found at the Cody Museum in Cody Wyoming. Note the massive amount of metal around the bore!

I saw that rifle when we visited the Museum of the West. Your picture turned out better than the ones I tried to take.
The overall number of firearms on display ay MotW is truly impressive. Everything from old to new is on display.
A 2-day pass is sold, and all that time is needed to see everything.

 

[Herb]

Notchy Bob, that is a great link to the Jim Bridger Hawken They show two Hawkens, the second one is in Kalispell. I was there a few years ago and did not know about this rifle. It is a lot different from other Hawkens. Thanks!

 

[52Bore]

 

[HighUintas]

Here are a few pictures of David W. Patten's rifle, located in the LDS church by history museum, mentioned by @Notchy Bob . They are attached below. I didn't spend a lot of time taking pictures of this one, as I was in a hurry to find the other rifle. But, this is a beautiful rifle. I am not sure, but I think the information placard said it was made in Illinois.

Also attached are pictures of a other rifle owned by Jim Bridger. It is not a Hawken rifle, but I was fooled the first time I saw it. It is on display at the Museum of the Mountain Man in Pinedale, WY. It was a gift to Bridger by Louis Vasquez and made by a W. Ogden in New York.

 

[pab1]

Its interesting that in this picture of George Washington Sears (aka Nessmuk), he's not holding the Billinghurst at 60 round balls to a pound (around .42 cal) he wrote of. I don't remember him writing about this double at all.

 

[burlesontom]

You guys are fortunate to have seen and handled some of these famous guns. We went to Maryland to visit my youngest son a few years ago. I wanted to drive but my oldest son wanted to fly so we got plane tickets. I like road trips and wanted to stop at Dixie Gun Works on the way back. The sad part is that after forcing us to buy plane tickets my oldest son backed out a day before we left. I am still P.O.ed about that.

The only original gun I have ever handled was on the wall in a house I was doing repairs in. I have no idea who made the gun but it was a half stock that had what looked like a .53 sized bore and a barrel that was one and a quarter across the flats. What a heavy gun it was too. I can't imagine trying to tote that on a deer hunt.

I forgot. At the gunshow someone had a BP rifle with a barrel that must have been 2+" in the barrel. The bore was around .54-.58. The owner told me it was a civil war sniper rifle. I think it easily weighed 25 pounds. It was all barrel.

All these pictures of real Hawkens are making me want an accurate Hawken copy. And I can't afford it. But please don't stop. Keep the pictures coming.

 

[beardedhorse]

Going soon to see Jeff and Jim Gordon's Museum where the Tobin rifle is. Not heard of a documented James Beckwourth or Beckwith rifle that was stolen. Interesting article somewhere of Jedediah Smith's recovered pistol, one of a set of two. But purported to be missing, stolen from a California museum.
Have handled and seen Jeff's rifle. Script engraving on underside of barrel with Beckwith, not Beckwourth if I recall correctly. Beckwourth worked as a blacksmith on one of William Ashley's trip up the Missouri. Will double check on barrel marking. Tack pattern similar on rifle hanging in cabin and the one being held by Jeff and Carney who worked at GRRW. Both fine gentlemen very knowledgable about muzzle loaders.
Uncle John Brown (no relation to Harper's Ferry attack) used the .66 full stock percussion Hawken rifle against U.S. troops marking toward Salt Lake City. Fired one ounce ball and had half scroll type trigger guard. See chapter in Craig Boddington's book on America and the Men and Guns that made Her great (title=?). Brown's photograph is shown along with full length view of his rifle. Theories that all full stock Hawkens and early Hawkens had flat to the wrist trigger guards and all later half stock Plains rifles by the Hawken shop had scroll guard trigger guards are disproven. Brown's full stock Hawken and Mariano Medino's halfstock Hawken contradict this false belief.
John Johnston's Bowie knife is below the Hawken and above is a .56 cal (?) Spencer-Gemmer with Hawken halfstock features. "Liver Eating" Johnston supposedly killed a young Indian boy to get one like it and was disappointed in its performance. He was re interred from California to Wyoming at Bob Edgar's Old (?)Town just west of the Cody Museum. Robert Redford was one of the pall bearers.