Range Report 1858 Rem (Newbie)

[brentp]

I took my Uberti 1858 Remington to the range for the first time yesterday.

Having no prior knowledge about loading and shooting this gun, and very little about black powder guns in general, I went to the local gun shop "Legondary Guns" for some advice.

They sold me some Hodgedon triple 7 FFFG powder, and some primers.

I have lots of experince pooring lead, so I made up a bunch of balls and went to the range.

I loaded the gun the way they told me to at the shop, but from what I have read on the internet, there seems to be other possibly better ways of doing it.

I started with 20 grains for the first few rounds and then went to 25. After pushing the ball in, I would make a ring of oil around the ball "to prevent flash over".

I shot about 5 groups with this one being the last, and best. 4" group at 50 ft off a bench.

I do have a few questions. It appears that people use everything from grease, patches, and oil to prevent flash over. Is one prefered over the other? Does anyone fill the void between the ball and powder with a filler? It seems a filler would make for a more consistant burn.

Any advice would be appreciated. What am I doing wrong? What should I do differnt? Thanks

 

[LeMat1856]

.
. june 17 / 1:50pm

hi, and that's not bad shootin' for a first time.. you sould see my first target...

personally i use:

*25g(target load) up to 35g (kaboom load) fff goex real black powder

*fill all chambers and then tap lightly on the
cylinder to settle the powder and eliminate any air space.

*then a lubed 44/45 cal 1/4" felt pad to take up any space (more about this later**).

*then seat the ball - .454" - and remove the thin ring of lead that gets cut off the edges.

*then for extra measure i layer on a small amount of thompson/center bore butter which helps soften and lube the round on it's way out and further reduce the possability of chain fires.

**the felt pads might or not be necessary to help push the round up as close as possible to the chamber mouth so there isn't any air space within
the chamber.. one pistol doesn't need any unless i'm using small target loads (15-20g) the other needs two wads even when i use hotter loads (25-30g) because they are just deeper than the other.

*lastly i place on the percussion cap and give it a firm push downwards to make sure it's seated as tightly as possible.

*point at target, close eyes, say a prayer, and squeeze trigger, open one eye to see if i hit anything. :wink:

777 seemed to get good grades for some revolvers tested in a book i read recently - higher than goex.. however, it is a little more tepremental to humidity and ignition and some say it is more hygroscopic (water absorbing) so you will have to be careful with storage..

on other forums some shooters use corn meal, grits, and such to take up that extra space.. i read on a genuine sales pamphlet published by samuel colt that "no filler needed" was his firm recommendation and i'm sticking with that.. one or two felt pads (lubed or dry) will do the trick.

there's no reason to use patches for a revolver, so you can discard that suggestion..

oils are used for lubrication only. ditto previous paragraph.

just how far from the chamber mouth are your rounds seating ?

~d~
t/c bore butter is really popular as are about a thousand other concoctions - untimately it's to each his own.

 

[torn moc]

Lemat...man! your answers are so precise and you never miss any aspects of the question...!
You would make a heck of a lawyer!
...your answers sort of remind me of Paul Vandigham's.......

 

[brentp]

Thank you for the detailed response! Very helpfull.

.
. june 17 / 1:50pm
just how far from the chamber mouth are your rounds seating ?
.

I am using the lever on the gun to seat the ball, so the ball is being pushed down as far as the lever goes. I can tell that there is a void between the powder and ball.

 

[R.M.]

If that lever isn't pushing the ball down far enough, you'll need to add something like a felt wad or meal filler. On my ROA's, I've drilled and tapped the end of the rammer, and screwed on a .44 cal jag to make it longer. Whatever you do, that ball needs to be down on the load.

 

[LeMat1856]

.
. 3:35pm


purely unintentional !! i mean, how nice of you to compare me to an such a knowledgable icon of this forum..

from now on, i'll keep it to under 500 words.

:rotf:

 

[LeMat1856]

.
. 3:40


ok, then here's the rub: one wad might not be enough - but - two might be too thick, and they don't come in different thicknesses, so.....

you'll have to experiment..

do some math.. use your caliper to measure the depth of the chamber, fill it with 35g powder, measure again.

now, your lead is .451 or .454" so add up what you need in powder and lead and fill in the rest with wads.. the amount of bore butter is not all that important - like a pair of pants, just enough to cover the subject.. in fact, too much butter and it will spray all over the place.

(the wads should caliper out to 1/8")

let us know how that works.

~d~

i'zat better, scalper. ps. i checked out mountain mold and they don't do hollow base conicals... strike 3.

 

[R.M.]

Remember that a felt wad will compress a certain amount too.

 

[JJB22]

From another member:

Don't forget to make sure your caps are tight and in place, there is more of a chance of a chain fire from the cap end than the barrel end of your cylinder.

I use the underball wads and they work great, I also use bore butter on my baby dragoon in the cooler months (summer just make bore butter run like liquid) and wads in the summer. I also invested in a loading tool for the 1858, I load my cylinders with it and put them in the gun loaded. I have four cylinders for mine and load up twice and that is 48 shots (more than enough for me at the range) and clean for a hour--that is the sucky part but hey, there is nothing like stinking up the sink with BP residue. :grin:

 

[rafterob]

My spin on the subject. I load 18-20 grns. 3f Goex, fill the remaining chamber with cornmeal (grits,cream of wheat) top with a .454 ball and seat firmly. Top with crisco. I have the Pietta and #10 CCI caps fit snugly. For sh*ts and giggles once and awhile, load the chamber all the way up with black powder and compress the ball down (not recommended for substitute powders)You get a stout boom outa it! Yep-in the summer months the crisco runs out of the rest of the chamber after 2-3 shots, some blend in beeswax to firm it up.

 

[mykeal]

I can tell that there is a void between the powder and ball.

Am I the only person who noticed this?

Absolutely under no circumstances should you ever load any black powder gun such that there is an air gap between the powder and the ball.

This is a dangerous practice - probably the most dangerous thing you can do with a black powder gun other than pointing it in an unsafe direction.

You absolutely must use an inert filler material (such as corn meal) or a felt wad to take up that gap.

 

[Zonie]

mykeal: I thought of something that is more dangerous than leaving a airspace between the powder and ball.

Loading ANY kind of smokeless powder into a BP gun.

brentp
Sounds like your off to a good start. Just keep reading the words of wisdom these guys are telling you. They do know what they are talking about.

As I've mentioned in other posts before, keep an eye on the capped nipples on the unfired chambers between shots.
Sometimes these little copper caps will fall off of a nipple and if they do, they will leave a direct passage into the chamber they were on.

If one is missing, stop everything and recap the loaded chamber before firing another shot.

You mentioned putting a "ring of oil" around the seated ball to seal it.
I wouldn't use oil. Grease, Crisco, the patch lubes like Natural 1000 will all help to seal the chamber and at the same time they will provide some lube for the lead ball when it hits the bore of the barrel.
The lube will also get blown onto the cylinder pin and help keep fouling from getting into that area.

Have fun!

 

[renovato]

The most important thing to prevent cross firing from the front of the cylinder is that the balls are the proper size. They should shave a ring of lead when you seat them. If they are loose in the chamber, no amount of grease is going to stop the hot gasses under pressure from getting by. Also, make sure your caps fit tightly. This is your gas seal from the rear to prevent a crossfire from happening at the back of the cylinder.

I use relatively light (20-25 gr) charges in my 1858, so I use filler. What the filler does is take up the extra space in the chamber so that the ball can be seated flush with the chamber mouth. This improves accuracy. The filler also helps scrub out fouling somewhat. You can use wads, dry or lubed, as filler, or cornmeal, grits, cream of wheat, etc. I've used both and have come to prefer granular filler such as cornmeal over wads. Wads are easier to work with, but with granular filler, you can figure out exactly how much to use to get good compression and still have the ball seat exactly where you want it.

 

[mykeal]

mykeal: I thought of something that is more dangerous than leaving a airspace between the powder and ball.

Loading ANY kind of smokeless powder into a BP gun.

Yes, of course. Agreed.