Range Report

[Sharp Shooter]

I finally got the chance to go shooting this afternoon in some nice weather so I decided to take TC Renegade with the GM 62cal SB barrel on it.

One of my goals was to play around with my turkey load. The first thing I tried was 100gn KIK FFG, 2 Niro Cards, 100gn (1-3/8oz) of #5 shot, then half of a Nitro Card on top. 20yds. This is the first target. It put 8 pellets in the vitals. I think thats a dead turkey!


My second shot was 100gn FFG KIK, 1 Nitro Card, 1 Fiber Wad lubed with mink oil, 100gn (1-3/8oz) #5 shot, and half a Nitro Card on top. 20yds. This gave me 7 or 8 pellets in the vitals. Again, thats a dead turkey.

My next 3 shots were the same loads as above but everything started going south. I was not getting anymore than 2 pellets in the vitals. I did swab between shots and let me tell you, it was very hard swabbing and I was pulling lead out. I dont know what happened and why I was not getting the patterns I was earlier. Swabbing did not do anything either.

After I was done playing around with shot I got some roundballs out. I loaded 100gn FFG, 1 Nitro Card, half a Fiber Wad, then dropped the ball down and topped it with half a Nitro Card. I was pretty happy with the results. I intended to shoot 80-90gn of powder but forgot to change my measure from 100gn to 80 or 90gn. 100gn did just fine though. I shot 5 shots into a 3.5" group at a little over 35yds with one flyer.


Overall I was happy with my first few shots with my turkey loads but after that I dont know what happened and why my patterns went south. Any ideas?

I was happy with the roundballs but next time I might try differnt charges and see if it makes a difference or not.

 

[silent sniper]

hmmm... it sounds like the shot is leading your barrel. my suggestion is either use a shotcup, or lube the barrel after you load,or both. they will help give you fuller and tighter patterns. cheers SS

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Ya there was a decent amount of lead on the patches when I swabbed. The humidity was really low today which made the fowling hard. I think that might also have to do with the excess leading to . I will try running a patch of bore butter or mink oil down the bore next time before I shoot and see if that helps or not.

Thanks

 

[matt denison]

Reduce your powder charge 20% or even 25%. 100 gr. is a lot of powder for a 20 gage to shoot efficiently.

L. Dog

 

[BillinOregon]

SS: Agree it was the accumulating fowling doing bad things to your load string.

 

[mspowderhorns]

try about 55 gr 3f and only 1 oz of shot..I think you are trying to get too much out of it with the loads you are using...look at a box of 20ga shells...2dram equiv. and 1 oz shot..

 

[Sharp Shooter]

I dont think an ounce of shot would be enough for an open bore to use on turkey though. What do you think?

 

[123.DieselBenz]

Can't hurt to just try it . . . 1 3/8 oz shot is more like a 12ga load . . .

 

[Croppy Boy]

I agree, 100 grains is too much powder in a 20 gauge. I have a 20 gauge but use it mostly for PRB, I tried patterning it one time and found 60/65 grains of FFg with 1 1/4 oz shot gave a good pattern at 25 yards. Mind you, I didn't use any wads, only 3 or 4 OS cards over the powder and one over the shot.
You should try this load, I think you'll be pleased with the results. :thumbsup:

 

[Britsmoothy]

My not far away 20g (.58) smoothy likes just 60grain and 1 oz with just a few cards betwixt.

Put as much shot in as you like but back of the powder some :thumbsup:

Try a patch greased well with the balls :thumbsup:

Brits

 

[longfowler]

I agree, if you look back in this forum you'll see a lot of guys are using 60-80 grains of powder and 1-1/4 to 1-3/4 oz of shot for turkeys, in all gauges. I use a sxs 12 ga, killed 2 birds last year: spring tom, 75 grs 1f, homemade shotcup & 1-3/4 oz of #4's, and fall hen with 60 gr 1f same wad, 1-1/2 oz of #5's. both birds about 20 yards. remember, a little powder & a lot of lead, shoots far & kill's 'em dead!

 

[cgg]

Longfowler--If you don't mind me asking--How do you make your "home made shot cup?" Thanks

 

[smoothshooter]

Sounds to me like you are using way too much wadding between the powder and shot. Cut it back to a thin overshot wad on top of the powder for a better gas seal and a split ( as in only 1/3 to 1/2 of a thickness of your lubricated cushion wad) on top of that. Put another thin overshot wad on top of the shot and shoot. This will also reduce the inventory of wads you will need to carry. That large wad stack you have been using may be blowing through the shot column as it leaves the bore, causing "doughnut" patterns that will be thin in the center. Also, don't read too much into just one or two patterns-fire at least five shots with each load before making a decision or changing anything. smoothshooter

 

[longfowler]

here's a link to the results from the spring hunt:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...id/233914/post/715065/hl/drouge/fromsearch/1/

I made the cups with a 20 ga base wad, wrapped a piece of thin cardboard around once, secured with scotch tape. then drilled a hole , insert string, tie on cotton ball, cut to length. Loaded over an overpowder wad, it was so durable, I was able to re-use the exact same wad - in the other barrel - on my fall bird! I'd use it again, but lost it in the leaves, lol.
for regular shooting, like crows & squirels, I just use the overpowder wads & overshot cards,usualy with 60-70 grains 1f & 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 oz shot.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Ok. I was worried about penetration at 20yds but It looks like that is not an issue. I will try a lighter powder load. I used 100gn FFG with 100gn shot because of I was told of the rule equal powder volume to equal shot volume.


Thanks


Kirk

 

[paulvallandigham]

Take a look at the Lyman Shotshell Reloading manual, ( for modern shotgun shells), and the tables there that show pellet energy for MV, time in flight and drop in flight. Distances are 20, 40, and 60 yards. The velocities tend to be a lot higher than what you can get from a BP shotgun, except in the case of the 28 ga. smoothies( .550" diameter bore). But, hot loads in the small bores will generate erratic pressures, and velocities, making it hard to produce a consistent pattern.

In many states, you can not legally use any Shotgun smaller than a 20 gauge to hunt Turkey. Check on your own state's regulations, before spending a lot of time working up a load with a 28 ga. smoothbore. They are great for other game, and with RB, for shooting deer within range. But, the Game departments generally want you to be putting more shot, and Heavier shot out the barrel when shooting turkeys.

If you limit your kill range to only 20 yards, just about any shot will work. Again, look at that pellet energy chart in the Lyman books. Its very instructive. Most hunters here, as elsewhere, use either #6, #5, or #4 shot when hunting turkeys. Some use duplex loads of #6 & #4 shot. The heavier shot carried pellet energy much further, even at lower MVs, and its the pellet energy as well as the number of pellets that can be normally expected to hit the thin Neck/Head target area that insures a dead turkey. :thumbsup:

With a shotcup to protect the bore from leading, and a reasonable powder charge, pushing #5 shot, there is NO reason that you should not expect to be able to kill a Turkey out at 30 yards, with a cylinder bore gun. If the barrel is choked, you may extend the killing range to 40 yards with that large size shot. AGain, look at the chart on pellet energy down range.

In choked barrels, you can get away pushing a load of shot out the muzzle at speeds well in excess of the speed of sound( 1135 fps.) But, with a cylinder bore, and the slower burning BP, you need to keep the load below that velocity for better patterns, and simply use the larger shot pellet sizes to send pellet energy out sufficient to kill the birds.

The real work is finding the combination of powder charge and shot load, the right gauge smoothbore, and the right wads, etc. to put it all together to get CONSISTENT performance, shot after shot. If you can deliver a consistent pattern to a predictable spot, with an amount of shot pellets sufficient to cover the pattern evenly, and deliver 3-5 pellets to the head/neck area of the turkey, you will have your trophy. :hatsoff:

 

[Sharp Shooter]

So if I use less powder than I do shot that will tighten my groups and reduce leading right?

 

[Sharp Shooter]

I was reading this article: http://members.aye.net/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html

Great Article! It looks like this guy uses 80gr FFFG which would be equal to how much FFG?
And he shoots 120gn of #6 shot. Next time I will try a combo with more shot than powder and see if that works for me to.

Thanks Guys


Kirk

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yes. You should see improvement in your patterns by loading less powder. It all depends on what wads you use, and how well they seal the bore of your gun. Always measure the bore of you barrel yourself! Do Not rely on what a manufacturer says on the side of the barrel. With exact measurements, you can do a much better job selecting the correctly sized wads, and cards.

For example: My new fowler was suppose to be 20 gauge. We bought 20 ga. wads. OP wads, Cushion wads, and Over Shot( OS) cards. The first RB load we fired hit very low at a 25 yd target. The Chronograph told us it was only going a little over 800 fps. and it should have been producing 1020 fps velocity. Something was very wrong.

So, we FINALLY got around to measuring my bore, and, Lo, and Behold, my barrel measures .626", instead of .615", almost 19 GAUGE!! So, we ordered 19 gauge wads. VOILA! Velocity came up to 1030 fps, immediately, the powder burned completely, and there was very little residue left, using FFg powder. In fact, I had no more residue in the bore than when I shot FFFg powder. OUTSTANDING. Point of Impact rose about 8 inches at 25 yds, BTW.

My gunmaker was shocked. He had just completed a 20 gauge fowler for his own use, using a barrel from the same source from which he ordered mine. His barrel is a true .615" diameter. He never even thought to check the bore diameter when he ordered the barrel. He promised me that he would never do that again.

 

[excess650]

"One of my goals was to play around with my turkey load. The first thing I tried was 100gn KIK FFG, 2 Niro Cards, 100gn (1-3/8oz) of #5 shot, then half of a Nitro Card on top. 20yds. This is the first target. It put 8 pellets in the vitals. I think thats a dead turkey!"

Your powder and shot charges are similar to what I use in my 12ga TC New Englander. I tried 80-110gr KIK ffg under shot charges of 90-120gr volumes. For "over powder" I used a pair of Wonder Wads, and a single, thin overshot card. I did make my own shotcups by wrapping 2-1/4" squares around a 5/8" dowel, gluing the seam with Elmer's, and twisting and flattening the tail. I did not see any leading, and that was the only intent of the shotcup. My patterns are round and dense out to the 35 yards that I've tested, but I do have a full choke tube.