range trip attempt 3 (solved some problems but created another)

[Matt85]

i took my pedersoli long rifle to the range today for the 3rd attempt at getting it to shoot reliably. the trip was bitter sweet, i managed to find out how to get the gun to fire multiple shots without failing but the solution created a new issue:

the first issue: if youve read my earlier posts you know that my long rifle was firing 2-3 shots before caps ceased to ignite the powder.

the solution: after a whole lot of different methods and even sending it back to dixie (they replaced the nipple and coned the powder chamber). i found that simply not cleaning the gun at all between shots seemed to solve the issue. i shot some really nice (for me) groups today averaging 2-3 inches at 50 yards.

the new problem: while not cleaning the gun solved the old problem, it created a new one. the shot that would have been my last for the night turned out to be the biggest problem of the night. i was able to get the ball started with the short starter and pushed down to the length of the starter (took some real effort). but it would not budge any further! no amount of effort between me and another guy at the range could get the ball to seat further. so then i tried removing the ball with C02... this didnt work, just burned up all my C02 canisters. i ended up being able to pull the ball with a huge amount of effort with a screw type ball puller and the help of another shooter (was the most difficult ball ive ever seen!!). after getting the ball out i tried to clean the barrel which just led to my rod getting stuck. i was saved once again by another shooter removing my rod with a hammer.

so what do you guys recomend i do to solve my fouling problem? i cant clean between shots cause it pushes fouling down into the powder chamber.

im very happy with my groups using schuetzen 3F but the fouling renders my gun a walking stick after about 30 shots. Pyrodex "P" does not seem to have this same issue but my groups open up from 2-3 inches to 4-5.

PS: i was able to get the gun cleaned at home with a huge amount of hoppes #9 and going real slow.

 

[cynthialee]

shoot for the middle ground of your two extremes

 

[Bill Hall]

shoot for the middle ground of your two extremes

BAM! Nailed it. Obviously, you do need to clean at least once in a while, so instead of either not cleaning, or cleaning between every shot, give it a light swabbing, say every 3-5 shots. You don't need to put a sloppy wet patch down the bore, just enough moisture on the patch to soften the powder residue. It's all about finesse, not either/or.

Where I live, it's so dry that I need to swab every other shot, or I'll be pounding down that third shot. That's using a stiff hunting lube though, I can use spit patch and shoot many more times than that without swabbing. Something I learned about swabbing is to use just a little moisture on the patch, and you don't need to run the ramrod all the way until it stops at the breech plug. The ball never goes all the way to the plug anyway, and the residue build-up won't bother the powder charge. That way the crud doesn't get packed into the breech and cause problems. I suppose there is more of a chance of the crud build-up holding a glowing spark, but I tend to take a lot of time in between shots, and in 35 years of shooting, I have never had, nor seen, a "cook-off". Bill

 

[Zonie]

When you get a ball stuck due to fouling, pour a little water (or oil) down the bore.

Give it a minute or two to soak into the patch and you should be able to push the stuck ball down to the powder load. Then proceed to shoot the gun as usual.
The small amount of water that might get past the ball won't damage enough powder to cause a mis-fire.

The others are right. Don't go to extremes with the wiping or not wiping.

When you feel a patched ball giving some resistance to loading say to yourself, "Got to wipe it before the next shot." Then follow thru with this.

As for wiping the bore, try my method before giving up on your shooting as a lost cause.

When I say "wet patch" I mean one that is damp, not wet. Damp to me means it is thoroughly wet but water won't squeeze out of it.

1. Get a damp (wet) cleaning patch and place it on the muzzle.

2. Quickly ram it down the bore to the breech plug in one smooth stroke.

3. Count to 20. Then, pull the damp patch up the bore and out of the gun, again, using one smooth stroke.

4. Using a clean dry patch, run it down to the breech once and then pull it back out of the bore.

5. Proceed with loading the next shot.

Other rules of mine:

1. Never run a dry patch down the bore.

2. Never use a sopping wet wiping patch.

3. Never pump the wiping patch up and down the bore.

I can give reasons for each of these steps and rules but for now, just try it. I think it will solve your problems.

 

[Matt85]

shoot for the middle ground of your two extremes

BAM! Nailed it. Obviously, you do need to clean at least once in a while, so instead of either not cleaning, or cleaning between every shot, give it a light swabbing, say every 3-5 shots.

im sorry, i didnt mention that at one point about half way threw my shoot i decided to do a quick swabbing. this caused the gun to start failing and i had to do a complete clean on site. with this gun if i even so much as swab once it will start to fail. (i didnt mention this cause i already knew swabbing caused failures)

this gun is very picky!

a couple ideas ive thought up:

1. include a lubed wad under the ball
2. use different lubes

 

[Trench]

Have you tried spit as a range lube yet? The first thing I do is put a patch in my mouth, then pour powder, then grab a ball, pull the patch out of my mouth and load. It keeps things pretty soft most of the time. Then, I'll put a damp cleaning cloth down the bore after about 5 or 6 shots.

 

[nchawkeye]

Looks like you're learning...

I swab between each shot, sometimes just a damp patch and a dry one but as you learned, getting a ball and ramrod stuck is no fun...

Sounds to me like your cleaning jag is too large, chuck it up in a drill and use a file to make it a smaller diameter...

A jag shouldn't push fouling down, it should pull it up and out of the barrel...Most are too large...

You've also seen why many of us actually prefer a flintlock, it's easier to pick the vent then deal with a drum and nipple...

 

[Matt85]

Looks like you're learning...

I swab between each shot, sometimes just a damp patch and a dry one but as you learned, getting a ball and ramrod stuck is no fun...

Sounds to me like your cleaning jag is too large, chuck it up in a drill and use a file to make it a smaller diameter...

A jag shouldn't push fouling down, it should pull it up and out of the barrel...Most are too large...

You've also seen why many of us actually prefer a flintlock, it's easier to pick the vent then deal with a drum and nipple...

a smaller jag, i think i might have one layen around too. ill give that a shot on my next range trip.

the issue is really the long thin right angle flash channel thats that problem. if any junk gets in there its very hard to clean out and renders the gun unfireable. if the drum were to connect directly with the barrel then the gun would run like clockwork but instead they had to make it complicated and unreliable.

 

[jamesthomas]

I would change lubes and or go to a tighter patch if you can. A tighter patch will clean the grooves as you load. If you need to swab Try a patch soaked with Alcohol then follow with a dry patch, That way there is no water to get into the drum area and cause problems.

 

[nchawkeye]

I understand...Years ago I had a buddy that had the same problem with a percussion...I pulled the drum, made the channel larger and beveled it where powder would flow in easier, problem solved...

 

[ebiggs1]

I have two Pedersoli long rifles and I don't swab, as a general rule, either of them when I shoot them. If I do swab I use denatured alcohol on a cleaning patch. Very infrequent though.
I use Bore Butter as a lube, or plain olive oil, and I suspect this is your problem. You need enough lube and if you err, do so on too much instead of too little.
I will also say that 30 or 40 shoots is a day for me. I usually don't shoot much more than that in a session. I don't have any issues with either gun.
In the 50 I use,
70 gr of GOEX FFF
.018 pillow ticking patch, I cut at the muzzle.
Bore Butter as a lube.
All I can say is give this a try as I know it will work. It most likely will work for you, too.

 

[cynthialee]

If she is such a picky rifle, then maybe she needs to be retired and you should start looking for a new boomstick.

 

[Rifleman1776]

a smaller jag, i think i might have one layen around too. ill give that a shot on my next range trip.

Lot of good advice so far. I just hope it doesn't confuse you.
You say "clean" between shots. Between shots should only be a simple swabbing.
Do not use a lot of moisture. I slightly spit dampen my cleaning patch.
Your jag is probably too large if you are pushing crud down the barrel.
The cleaning part does not start until you begin pulling the jag and patch back out. Then the patch crumples up behind the jag and pulls crud up the bore.
Methinks a too large jag is 90% of your problems.

 

[Grullaguy]

I use greased patches in my rifles. In the summer when it is hot out, I sometimes will have fouling make ball seating a chore.

In matches, I just put a gob of spit on the greased patch and smear it around with my finger. This reduces the fouling and keeps me shooting. :idunno:

 

[Matt85]

i use denatured alchohol for swabbing puposes aswell. my idea of swabbing is a quick pass in and out of the barrel.

the patches im currently using are .015 wonder patches. ive tried the .018 wonder ticking and it doesnt fit. i know these arent the best, i need to find a source of patch material thats reliably sized so i can use different lubes.

 

[Maven]

Matt, If you don't mind cutting your own patches, Joann Fabrics generally has a good selection of 100% cotton pillow ticking, pocket drill, and denim, and even flannel for cleaning patches. However, you'll need to take a micrometer or [dial indicating] caliper with you to determine the compressed thickness of the material. I'm certain they'll have something you can use. Here's a link: http://www.joann.com/

 

[Matt85]

Matt, If you don't mind cutting your own patches, Joann Fabrics generally has a good selection of 100% cotton pillow ticking, pocket drill, and denim, and even flannel for cleaning patches. However, you'll need to take a micrometer or [dial indicating] caliper with you to determine the compressed thickness of the material. I'm certain they'll have something you can use. Here's a link: http://www.joann.com/[/quote]

if i ever get around to buying a micrometer ill check em out, thanks. i havent found a micrometer at any local stores)

 

[pa woods roamer]

I have a Pedersoli Cub Cap Gun.You have to Fire 3-4 Caps before loading to make sure the Chamber is Oil free. I also snap a Cap on an empty Gun during a shoot just to make sure the Chamber is clear. Tempermental, But, it is shooter!!!

 

[jdw276]

I put a cleaning patch on my jab and when I seat the round ball with the ramrod I get a swab in and out of the barrel making it so I don't have to clean as often. Two shots, flip the patch two more, change patch.

Keeps the gunk level down and do two things with one push of a ramrod.

 

[Matt85]

I put a cleaning patch on my jab and when I seat the round ball with the ramrod I get a swab in and out of the barrel making it so I don't have to clean as often. Two shots, flip the patch two more, change patch.

Keeps the gunk level down and do two things with one push of a ramrod.

now this is a novel idea, when i go to ram the ball down the barrel, include a patch on the rod. im gonna try this on the next range trip.