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RB loads and Buck and Ball loads for .72

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john12865

40 Cal.
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I tried using the search and came up with every topic that included buck-ball-load which didn't help me out a lot. I have a .72 that I normally shoot shot out of. I came across some .715 round balls and decided I'd like to try a RB in a smooth bore. I would also like to try some buck and ball loads just for fun and to satisfy my devastation curiosity. I normally use Goex 1 fg for my shot loads because it gives me better patterns. I suspect I'll need to use 2 fg or 3 fg for RB. What is a good powder load for a single .715 RB in .72?
With a buck and ball load, load powder then ball then buck? How many ounces of buck and ball can I put down the bore? For example, 1 ball 4 buck? Any rule of thumb on this, I don't want to be doing anything unsafe.
Naturally I expect the recoil to increase with heavier lead charges. I value my shoulder and the gun so safe and sane recommendations please. Thanks.
 
For a single RB load in a 12 gauge( nominally .729") smoothie, I would start with 3 drams( 83 grains) of 2Fg and go up from there in 5 grain increments to develop an accurate load. Don't plan on going much past 90 grains, as that ball is 1 1/4 oz. in weight, and it doesn't have to be leaving the muzzle at high velocity to kill about anything it hits( and passes on through).

Buck and Ball loads get a bit more difficult to judge. You are adding more weight to the Load you are shooting, and that will produce more recoil, as well as increase the pressure in the gun.

You can try 00 Buckshot( .33" in diameter, nominally) and that should allow you to put 3 pellets per layer in your bore. However, if your bore is truly ONLY .72 caliber, that is a bit small, and you many have to go down to 0 Buck( .32 caliber), to get 3 pellets to fit in one "layer" in your bore.

In police loads of cartridge 12 ga. shells shooting 00 buck, the casing would hold either 9 or 12 pellets, depending on whether the gun is chambered for the 2 3/4" shell, or the larger 3" shell, respectively.

But, you are wanting to put a Single Ball in the barrel, and add buckshot to it.

If I were working on a load, I would be test firing at 15 yards, and begin with a 75 grains load of powder, the single ball, and One layer of 3 pellets and see how that shoots, pattern wise. If the shot is on a 12" square target, then add another layer of 3( total 6 pellets) and see how that shoots, and how you like the recoil. Remember that when you decide what Size Buckshot you choose to use, in this experiment, weigh the buckshot to see how much of an increased in total weight you are putting in your gun. As best as I can glean from reading histories, a Buck and Ball load consisted of one bore diameter ball, and 3 pieces of buckshot. The idea was when shooting at the enemy, which were arrayed in front of each other in ranks, standing at shoulder width, you use B&B loads to increase your chance of hitting someone, and if you were lucky, 2 soldiers. Any wound made that soldier a "casualty", because the lack of antiseptics, and anti-biotics meant that many "wounds" would eventually kill the soldier wounded as a result of long term infections.

Unless a wound was a grazing wound, a wounded soldier was considered the same as a dead soldier, and no longer expected to continue in the fight. Of course, not all enemy combatants obeyed, or even understood these " rules of war", and slaughtered any wounded enemy soldier whether he could resist or not, and whether he did resist or not.

For hunting, buck shot in general, and buck and Ball loads in specific, are rarely affective much beyond 10 yards. You are more likely to wound a deer( buck) running past you in heavy cover, than to deliver a mortal wound, if you miss with the single RB. Many of us refuse to take shot at running deer, choosing to wait for a shot at a game animal that is walking or stopped. :hmm: :hatsoff:
 
Hey Paul thanks for your reply. :thumbsup: I always love reading your replies to topics because they are so well written and informative. Then again your a Lawyer and you know how many buck shots are in a modern 12 gauge that the Police use.
How many of your clients have been disabled by the Police? :rotf:
I'm a retired Police Officer so as you know a Police Officer would never shoot to kill but only shoot to disable. (It's all in how you word it!) The really funny part is that in the Academy they trained me to shoot center of mass. :rotf: That was days of the .357 Magnum service revolver, it had some punch. Shotguns were Remington 12 GA P.
Nine millimeters was just coming in when I was going out. They were like shooting cap guns with a lot of caps in them. Shitt, I'm getting old!
 
I had one client shot by a sheriff's Deputy while trying to escape after being taken to a doctor's office for treatment. There were No facilities in the old County Jail- one of its many shortcomings-- for treating inmates. The deputy had to provide his own gun and ammo, so he shot my guy with a .38 wadcutter! It passed through the lower thigh of one leg, and lodge in the upper calf muscles of the other one.

I later met the deputy and thanked him for not killing my client. We became good friends, and I later hunted deer on his farm. My client was awaiting trial on Armed Robbery charges, and I was able to craft a persuasive argument for the judge to give him a lighter sentence, based on the fact that he had already experienced being shot. :v
 
In B&B experiments I've noticed that the load works better if you treat it like a shotgun load. So in other words instead of a column of shot as usual between the wad and the cover, you put your unpatched roundball and buckshot. This then patterns. Using a tightly patched RB with some shot on top and a cover doesn't seem to pattern nearly as well. The RB is OK but the buck goes wild even as close as 15 yards.

I'm currently using 100 2F and a .715" RB plus 3 buckshot out of the mini-howitzer blunderbuss, but that's a real stout load.

The only practical use for one I could see would be for DLP with our local bears. Your effective range is really limited, as noted. But they are a lot of fun.
 
Its a lot harder than you might think to shoot someone in the back- as they are fleeing in handcuffs. Walt told me he didn't want to kill him, and yelled at him twice to stop before he shot him in the legs. He really was not happy having to do that. My client was a very immature young man, who could not tell me why he ran, or where he thought he might escape to. He was scared about being shot- and was in quite some pain as his wounds healed. The Bullet was Not removed- contrary to all the teachings On Gunsmoke- most bullets are Not removed these days. I got the Attempted Escape charges dismissed for his guilty plea on the Armed Robbery charge. But, his "rap sheet" still showed his arrest for "Attempted Escape". I am sure that got him put in a higher security prison, and limited his chances to take education courses in prison( which he desperately needed.)
 
John
Buck and ball is a revwar military load specified in numerous daily orders from both sides. It consisted of 3 shot (unspecified size)and a ball rolled in a cartridge thus: buck, ball, powder.
To my knowledge, this is the only way B&B was loaded. I find no increase in accuracy or effect at 30yds using 90gr black powder and a 69 cal Charleville. In fact, there was no evidence of buck shot at all on a 4'x6' target.
Hope this helps


Larry
Sudbury Militia
 
YOu might play around with reducing the powder charge, and putting the Ball in front of the 3 pieces of shot, but you won't get Much more improvement. People have to remember that this WAS a military load- not a hunting load. A man is a heckuva lot bigger in area than a deer, particularly out at 50 yds.

There was also a psychological purpose to using Buck and Ball, even at a range where its not assured that any hits will be make with the smaller shot. Even one hit out of ten can be demoralizing to troops taking the gunfire. The fact that someone in a rear rank might be hit was also unnerving.

I think people may confuse Buck and Ball loads with Buckshot loads, when they are considering uses.

Thanks for the comment. I personally have never loaded BUCK and Ball, after seeing it done, and tested by others back in the 1950s. Putting the load in a "Package" as has been described is probably the best way to prepare such a load.
 
This is not buck and ball, however I remember reading somewhere that Washington told his men, prior to a battle, to load their guns with 3 ball and 18 buckshot, " according to the strength of their muskets"

Buck and ball was used by the Irish Brigade at Antietam at the Sunken Road. Buckshot ctg's. were issued as guard loads, in both smooth and rifled guns.

p
 
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