RB past 50 yards?

[Billy Boy]

Running some figures in a ballistics calculator shows roundball going transonic at around 50-75 yards (depending on the initial velocity). I’ve seen .22s go from tack-driving accuracy to all FUBAR once they go transonic. Is roundball likely to see the same effect? More muted? Exaggerated? Trying to get a sense of what range limitations I need to respect with the PRB.

Drop can be calculated to the fraction of an inch, wind drift in any shooting scenario can not. My bugabo had always been drift not elevation. Thats‘ why I prefer shooting at a moving deer at long range, he might jump, walk, or step into one…

 

[LME]

While the shape of the bullet(ballistic coefficient), and whether it is spinning or not can influence the de-stabilizing caused by transonic effects, the greatest influence creating instability while in the transonic zone(with rimfire) is the effect of the presence of wind….which causes the dispersion of the groups. Overall, the whole discussion of transonic effects are a subject of much debate. The best solution is to test your particular rifle/load(whether muzzleloader or modern) for your application.

If you would check the speed of match ammo for .22 target rifles the one thing they all had in common is they are right at the speed of sound. I can't recall any that` exceeded the speed of sound very much? There must be something that effects a .22 round after it exceeds the speed of sound. I haven't had any problem with speed in my M.L rifles but it seems that around 1400 feet a second with R.B,s seems to be the where it is most accurate. A ball drops like anchor but stays on course well.

 

[nkbj]

Develop your hunting load to suit your situation.
Decide upon the hunting powder charge you want and then figger out how to make it accurate.
Aint nothing else past that but to learn how to not be outsmarted by a "dumb animal".

 

[Okie Hog]

Round ball ballistics calculator:

Round Ball Ballistics Calculator for Muzzleloaders (ctmuzzleloaders.com)

 

[Art Caputo]

If you would check the speed of match ammo for .22 target rifles the one thing they all had in common is they are right at the speed of sound. I can't recall any that` exceeded the speed of sound very much? There must be something that effects a .22 round after it exceeds the speed of sound. I haven't had any problem with speed in my M.L rifles but it seems that around 1400 feet a second with R.B,s seems to be the where it is most accurate. A ball drops like anchor but stays on course well.

Yes, the speed of sound/transonic range runs at approximately 1090FPS. Most 22 target ammo has a MV in the 1050FPS range to keep it well out of the transonic range for the typical sub 100 yard distances. I have used. I have not noticed differences in accuracy measuring in minutes of angle at ranges from 25-125 yards. My typical muzzleloader MV’s run in the 1500-1800FPS range and drop off to approximately 1000FPS at 90-120 yards depending on the particular load. Sight picture variation and normal wind drift wiil likely have a far greater effect on measurable accuracy then that of the ball passing through the transonic region.

 

[LME]

Yes, the speed of sound/transonic range runs at approximately 1090FPS. Most 22 target ammo has a MV in the 1050FPS range to keep it well out of the transonic range for the typical sub 100 yard distances. I have used. I have not noticed differences in accuracy measuring in minutes of angle at ranges from 25-125 yards. My typical muzzleloader MV’s run in the 1500-1800FPS range and drop off to approximately 1000FPS at 90-120 yards depending on the particular load. Sight picture variation and normal wind drift wiil likely have a far greater effect on measurable accuracy then that of the ball passing through the transonic region.

You and I are on the same page. Back in the day I spent a small fortune on match ammo to feed my Anshutz, The fellow that owned the target range.three other friends and I shot many rounds at the range. The fellow that owned the range gathered up spent casing. The majority being .22 cal. and sold them at the local scrap yard. He got $150.00 for the brass. I don't even want to know how much money we have spent on match ammo?

 

[Spikebuck]

My farthest shot to take a deer was 110 yards..., the ball still passed right through

Basically the same here...115 yards well rested, open sights on a .54 Cabela's Blue Ridge (Pedersoli Frontier). .530 ball in front of 90 grs of 777 in a caplock. Late season adult doe. Broke ribs on both sides with a complete pass through. I don't usually take longer shots like that on game, but this one was in a open field and I had a very solid rest. I do practice out to 125 yards.

To the OP....Take a look at Brian Beckum's hunting videos. He shoots a 50 with PRB almost exclusively on whitetails (sometimes his .62 smoothie).

His Real Black Powder DVD is my favorite. Beckum Outdoors

 

[45man]

I have taken deer to 125 yards a few times with a flintlock but prefer the close shots. For fun I have had amazing accuracy from RB's at 200 meters.

 

[Nuthatch]

If you would check the speed of match ammo for .22 target rifles the one thing they all had in common is they are right at the speed of sound. I can't recall any that` exceeded the speed of sound very much? There must be something that effects a .22 round after it exceeds the speed of sound. I haven't had any problem with speed in my M.L rifles but it seems that around 1400 feet a second with R.B,s seems to be the where it is most accurate. A ball drops like anchor but stays on course well.

In my case, it's in having to deal with the lead-free .22 rounds here in CA. They start out fast -- about 1600-1800 fps but are only about 20 grains in weight. So what is a tack-driver at 40 yards can be barely on paper by 60 as it is going transonic at about 50. But it sounds like those "yaw" forces aren't coming into play much with a round ball. Though it is curious why a ball in a rifled barrel would be more accurate than out of a smoothbore. Perhaps the transonic "slap" affects a spinning ball less than one that isn't rotating? Just speculating here.

 

[hanshi]

The very few deer I've killed at 100 yds or over were also in an open meadow and I used a large hay bale to rest the rifle on. The rifles were .50s.

 

[sheriff john]

Swaged or cast round balls? Sprue up or down? What happens to the sprue on a cast round ball, anyway? Doe is help stabilize the ball, make it go wild, or make any difference at all? Swaged ones I've had certainly aren't all that round but cast ones have either a sprue or flat spot. Curious.

 

[BadDaditood]

Swaged or cast round balls? Sprue up or down? What happens to the sprue on a cast round ball, anyway? Doe is help stabilize the ball, make it go wild, or make any difference at all? Swaged ones I've had certainly aren't all that round but cast ones have either a sprue or flat spot. Curious.

I gently “contour” sprues with the ramrod
;-)

 

[Robby]

Swaged or cast round balls? Sprue up or down? What happens to the sprue on a cast round ball, anyway? Doe is help stabilize the ball, make it go wild, or make any difference at all? Swaged ones I've had certainly aren't all that round but cast ones have either a sprue or flat spot. Curious.

I remember reading an article in Muzzle Blast magazine written by the Bevel Brothers where they experimented with placement of the sprue. Their findings were that sprue placement made very little difference in accuracy. That may well be, but I still place mine at center top and mash it with a short starter.
Robin

 

[hanshi]

Fact is, when you get to shooting prb much past, say, 125 yards it's mostly sort of "lobbing" the ball on target. But yes it will still drop deer or larger.

 

[brewer12345]

I used my Zouave on a hunt yesterday. Over the summer I shot it a bunch and practiced unsupported shots, since I seem to bump into deer when I am moving around rather than posted up. I have settled on a load of a PRB with an over powder wad and 75 grains of OE 1.5F. Shoots almost as well without the wad, but point of impact is a little lower (I am guessing the better seal of the bore with the wad bumps velocity a bit) Most of my practice is at 50 yards, but I also did a bunch of unsupported shooting out to 75 yards, which is kind of as far as my eyesight will allow unsupported shots. If you believe the ballistic tables in the Lyman 2nd edition black powder manual, this is something like a 1300FPS load at the muzzle. When I plug it into a ballistic calculator, it goes trans sonic between 25 and 50 yards. If it makes any difference to accuracy, I cannot tell in my shooting.

Took a 65 to 70 yard unsupported shot at a yearling doe and she made it all of 20 yards after the shot. Complete pass through quartering away shot, in the ribs on one side, out the shoulder on the other. Would have loved to have seen the ball, since the exit hole was considerably bigger than 58 cal, but it went to parts unknown.

 

[30338]

Have shot a few antelope does right at or slightly past 100 yards. Deep penetration with .530 roundballs. Have killed all of my mule deer and whitetail bucks at under 85 yards with .530 and .570 roundballs.

I hunt mostly on the wide open plains but can frequently take advantage of weeds and terrain features to close the gap. Have also hunted corn fields with good success at getting close. All that said if a nice buck was broadside at 110 yards in calm wind, I'd drop the hammer on him.

Have a Green Mtn fast twist 45 that shoots the 385 no excuses bullets great. May play around and try to be Idaholewis with that one lol. Be fun project for spring maybe.