RB Size for 16 Ga.

[BCarp]

Greetings!
A have a new 16 ga. Club-Butt Fowler from Narragansett due to arrive next month or so. I like to use paper cartriges when shooting roundball in a smoothbore. Here's my problem: finding a good sized RB for use in a 16 ga.!
The bore size is .662, so a .648 ball seems too big for paper or patch (only .014 clearance), and a .610 ball seems like it would be too small, though workable if I roll the cartridge with thick paper.

Something like a .630 ball would be perfect, but does anyone make them? I only see the .648's and .610's listed as readily available form the usual sources....

Thanks!

 

[Musketeer]

Hey, Carp! Your ball+patch doesn't have to be exactly the size of your bore. A .648 ball with a .010 patch is .668. This will fit perfectly well in a true 16 ga.(.662). The patch material compresses upon being introduced into the bore. Many people find a patch/ball combo that is roughly .010 over bore size to be just about right. In my 20ga(.625) I use either a .600 ball+.018 patch(.636) or a .595 ball+.020 patch(.635). You could even try a .648 ball+.015 patch(.678). I have a British Dragoon smoothbore pistol that had a bore of .665 that this combo fits into nicley. Remember, we're talking about thousanths of an inch here, and patches are compressible rather than solid, so you should be ok. You obviously don't want a ball/patch combo that has to be hammered downbore, but there's nothing wrong with a good snug fit that requires a firm hand on the ramrod. Just be sure not to load a tightly-fitting ball/patch by holding the end of the rod! Short start the combo, then grab the rod mabye 8-10" above the muzzle and start applying pressure from there. As the ball descends, just keep moving your hand(s) up the same amount. In other words: Ram incrementally, instead of trying to ram the whole affair home in one long motion. It seems like Stumpkiller mentioned something about this in a previous post. Perphaps he'll chime in here. :thumbsup:

 

[BCarp]

Thanks, Musketeer! I understand about compressing patches, but I want to use paper cartridges. How much will a couple of layers of cartridge paper compress? For instance, using a .735 ball in a cartridge is a REALLY tight fit in a .75 cal. "Bess", especially if there's any fouling, whereas the .715 ball works great in the same gun.
I know the .648 ball will work for loading a 16 ga. with patch or just wads, but for a paper cartridge that you want to "zip" down the bore, don't you think it's too big?

 

[Musketeer]

Sorry, Carp, I missed your point about shooting paper cartridges, I was thinking of patches. :redface: Yeah, a .648 would most likely be too big for this situation. I too believe that a .630 would be pretty near ideal, unfortunatley, you'll have to get a custom mould for such an animal. I buy all my roundballs, so I'm not sure whether there's a good source for custom mould blocks (or even just a custom cherry if you want to make your own). Perphaps there's somebody else on the Forum who can hook you up. I guess another possibility would be to go with a .610 and maybe double over your cartridge paper (or use two sheets,etc.). I remember reading about a guy who would dip the ball end of the paper cartridges for his Bess in a melted beeswax mixture (possibly melted with Crisco?) in order to take up windage/lube the barrel. You might be able to use this method as well. Once cooled, the mixture looked just like a thick layer of candle wax had been melted over the end of the cartridge. Definitely not a warm weather solution, but it might get you through this season. :: :thumbsup:

 

[musketman]

Something like a .630 ball would be perfect, but does anyone make them? I only see the .648's and .610's listed as readily available form the usual sources....

Carp, Jeff Tanner will make you a roundball mold in ANY size you wish, his work is top notch too...

Jeff Tanner Molds

 

[BCarp]

Thanks, gents! Those Tanner moulds look nice, though I haven't done my own casting in years....
Thinking in terms of hunting, a solution would probably be a carefully loaded .648 for the first shot, and some .610's rolled into cartridges for quick reloads in the field.

 

I had no trouble with .684's in paper ctg.s in a .69 rifle, but that's a bit different than a smoothbore.
: I would think that the .648 might be just fine as most paper is .003" that I used for mine, and a double wrapp is .012", wrapp and 1/2 is .009"(normal wrapp for me).
: If there is some sort of lube on them, like Stumpy's moose snot, they should shoot cleanly enough for at least 3 shots, perhaps 4. Holding them inside a pouch with a block of wood with 3/4" holes, 1" deep would keep them ball down and separate without messing each other's powder up. I used a standard "Hunter" brand ctg. pouch that takes 20 round box of modern ammo. I cut a piece of 1" pine to fit inside, with holes to hold the paper ctgs. It works just great, and the snap could be changed to a system more suitable for being PC.
: To test ball size, I'd order a bag of 50 from http://www.trackofthewolf.com to find if .648's will work. Tanner, in England will make you any size mould you want & .627" will give the same windage as the .715 ball in a .75 Bess. you must tell him you want it to cast .627 or whatever you want - as the mould will have to be about .003" to .004" larger than that to cast that size. The ball coming out is much smaller than the mould's hole size(after it cools). WW, Linotype or other hard lead casts larger balls from the same mould as does pure lead due to having less shrinkage when cooling.
:

 

[wtilenw]

Try these folks too for molds.
Idaho PRB
www.neihandtools.com

ROUND BALL
.300 - .310 - .315 - .320 - .330 - .343 - .360
.375 - .380 - .395 - .410 - .413 - .423 - .435
.440 - .450 - .460 - .488 - .490 - .495 - .500
.509 - .515 - .530 - .535 - 540 - .542 - .550
.561 - .570 - .580 - .592 - .600 - .610 - .626
.630 - .635 - .648 - .662 - .671 - .680 - .700
.710 - .715 - .730 - .740 - .750 - .776 - .820
.830 - .850 - .880 - .975 - 1.00 1.025 1.335

Joel
[email protected]
915-274-3204

 

[Stumpkiller]

Carp,

I used .650 and .648 cast balls in my .662 and they worked very well. You do need to be a tad generous in the patch lube to keep the fouling soft. Or, you can roll some paper cartridges and the relatively large balls are fine for that.

Paper is about .004" thick, depending on the sheet type. So a double-roll cartridge adds 0.016", making the .648" ball 0.664" overall. Perfect if your fouling hasn't hardened up.

 

[musketman]

Try these folks too for molds.
Idaho PRB
www.neihandtools.com

Thanks, I added it to the links...

 

[mazo kid]

NEI makes some nice moulds; I have 2 of them. However, they are not inexpensive. I also have 3 of Jeff Tanner's moulds and am well pleased with them. They are inexpensive and he really has a quick turn-around time. They don't have a sprue cutter, but that's not a problem, and he will make you any size you specify. Emery

 

I suggest with the Tanner moulds, that they are prepped with Mould Release from Rapine, or with one of the better Moly sprays. I did this with several aluminum and iron moulds with excellent results, but unfortunately, didn't treat my Tanner moulds before casting.
: When casting WW metal in Tanner moulds, a light smack with a hamemr handle or length of tree branch (I use Birch sticks 1" da.) usually knocks the solidified puddle off just after it hardened, leaving no large sprue to remove. This is due to the metal's brittle nature.
: Since I was using WW metal, I ended up with alloyed metal soldered to the cavities. I will now have to heat them to over melting temperatures(bullet melting temps) to try to rub the soldered bullet metal from the blocks.
: Hoppes brand Moly (aerosol can) was the best one I used for prepping the moulds and it works well. Birchwood Casey's(aerosol can) brand didn't stick to the moulds, aluminum nor iron & just rubbed off.

 

[BCarp]

Thanks, guys!
I have some pre-cut cartridge papers that are of a quite thin and flimsy paper, so it sounds like the .648's will work fine with those....

Merry Christmas!!