Success with tow and round balls

[bigted]

Many many don't get this phenomenon.
Also the danger of using a patch in a smooth bore is if the patch is not centered perfectly an unequal force can be applied to the ball by the cloth impacting the ball exactly on emerging from the bore.

Britts ... not sure I am tracking with you here. As with rifles, if you patch a ball in the smoothy ... from a spit or lubed strip of cloth ... after thumbing the ball surrounded by this cloth into the bore ... followed by cutting off the excess ... this is as purrrrrfect a centered patch around a ball that can be.

Or did I miss-interpret your post?

I do know that for some reason ... in my experience patching balls for my own smoothy (20 gauge) ... that for every three shots at the 50 yard mark ... I get two touching and a third around 2.5 or 3 inch away ... still good enough for even small deer but ... that flyer always burns my hind quarters. Might just be as you say.

My wadded bare balls get the very same trouble ... two in practically the same hole and one that nets me 2.5 to 3 inch groups.

My 62

 

[Britsmoothy]

Britts ... not sure I am tracking with you here. As with rifles, if you patch a ball in the smoothy ... from a spit or lubed strip of cloth ... after thumbing the ball surrounded by this cloth into the bore ... followed by cutting off the excess ... this is as purrrrrfect a centered patch around a ball that can be.

Or did I miss-interpret your post?

I do know that for some reason ... in my experience patching balls for my own smoothy (20 gauge) ... that for every three shots at the 50 yard mark ... I get two touching and a third around 2.5 or 3 inch away ... still good enough for even small deer but ... that flyer always burns my hind quarters. Might just be as you say.

My wadded bare balls get the very same trouble ... two in practically the same hole and one that nets me 2.5 to 3 inch groups.

My 62

Yes sir. It's the patch material just forward of the balls contact circumference.
There is no way of controlling how it folds into the ball....the rifling helps to maintain some uniformity of said material but in a smoothbore it can be irregular as it wishes.
Under severe acceleration any fold of material of the patch applying any uneven influence against the ball will cause flier's.

That's why I wish they still did straight rifling. Good with shot and ball (without patch).
The other issues with pure lead is obturation from high acceleration causing a true spherical shape to be lost. It appears in my experience pure lead from a muzzloader smoothbores retains it spherical shape up to .600+/-.
Once the lead ball gets around 12g or larger its own mass wants to collapse it's self if driven to hard.

On a tangent....there is good argument for developing a two or three ball load from a smoothbore!
Costs apart five .36" from my .45" is just as deadly as one .45" to 50yds or so.
You could say a built in flier's allowance!
I have no idea what shape them sub calibre balls are when they emerge but it works in the field.

 

[Brokennock]

the range you shoot a deer or antelope is beyond a smooth bores ability out here.

Then how do bowhunters get the job done. If they can get within bow range, you can get within 50 yards.

 

[Skychief]

NorthFork, sounds like you're onto something. Glad you are experimenting as it's a lot of the fun.

Keep listening to Spence and everything will be alright.

Thanks for sharing, Skychief.

 

[NorthFork]

I said in my op-

"There also seems to be a really wild flier or two or three that would either miss or only wound a deer at 50 to 85 yards."

This is misleading. I have NOT hunted deer or any other medium to big game with this smoothbore. Only birds/smallgame using shot. What I was trying to say is, if I had shot at a deer the wild fliers were bad enough to either miss or only wound deer sized game. If that makes any sense.

 

[Cattman]

WHY would i want to get with in 50 yards in open country? when i can knock them down at 200 yards. that was a senseless reply. i laughed my butt off. but anybody can say anything here. you want me to crawl though needle grass on my belly just so i can shoot a deer with a smooth bore. boy that makes a lot of sense. your welcome to it, lots of state and federal land for you to do just that on here. i may even come and watch.

 

[NorthFork]

I agree with Brokennock's statement.

 

[Gun Tramp]

The other issues with pure lead is obturation from high acceleration causing a true spherical shape to be lost.

I'm still experimenting with bare ball and wads in .69 caliber but have had good enough results so far to abandon the patch. My gut feeling is that uniform obturation shot to shot is the key, however it's achieved.

 

[Zonie]

WHY would i want to get with in 50 yards in open country? when i can knock them down at 200 yards. that was a senseless reply. i laughed my butt off. but anybody can say anything here. you want me to crawl though needle grass on my belly just so i can shoot a deer with a smooth bore. boy that makes a lot of sense. your welcome to it, lots of state and federal land for you to do just that on here. i may even come and watch.

I don't believe anyone asked you to crawl through needle grass to get within 50 yards of a deer.
They are talking about doing something that many of them think will make their deer hunt more interesting. More of a challenge. Something that if it is successful, will live in their memory for years to come. Even if it isn't successful, they will remember with fondness the entire experience for years to come.

Yes, modern hunters can use modern weapons to shoot deer at a range of 200 yards but to many of our members, this is not deer hunting. It is deer shooting.
It might as well be a paper or a metal target. There is really no hunting involved in it at all except perhaps the "hunting" done with an eyeball looking thru a high power telescope.

 

[NorthFork]

Thank you Zonie. Your words are exactly the way I think about the matter.



Every year I kill 1 to 6 deer with bow and ml. Every single year, year after year since 1990. The longest shot I've ever taken has been 125+/- yards. The closest has been 9 yards. The average has been roughly 30 yards. Yes only 30 yards. I can appreciate the skill involved in long distance shooting, but after a certain distance I really believe that it's shooting deer (or bear, turkey, elk, etc) not really hunting.

 

[Brokennock]

WHY would i want to get with in 50 yards in open country? when i can knock them down at 200 yards. that was a senseless reply. i laughed my butt off. but anybody can say anything here. you want me to crawl though needle grass on my belly just so i can shoot a deer with a smooth bore. boy that makes a lot of sense. your welcome to it, lots of state and federal land for you to do just that on here. i may even come and watch.

Oh, so you can't hunt, just shoot. I apologize, I thought you were referring to hunting game and hunting distances.
Sorry, my bad.

 

[appalichian hunter]

NorthFork, I'm with you killed a bunch of em over the years never shot one over 100 yards, Not a bow hunter though, muzzle loaders and the un-mentionable weapons. I find the thrill of the hunt is seeing how close my woodsman skills will let me get to my quarry. I have had deer walk up to me so close I could touch them, that for me is the challenge. The killing is the easy part.

 

[smo]

I've killed deer out over a 100 yards with modern guns, But never with a muzzleloader. Not that I can't , I just choose not too...

Too me, as Zonie explained getting in close too my quarry is the thrill of the hunt.

I leave the long range shooting to 10 year old my Grandson , He likes to shoot at long distances.
It makes him feel like he's a Sniper... So I call him Sniperman.. lol
He loves it! And the Kid can shoot!

I watched this ol boy stroll in from over 100 yards out.
I let him come up the hill I was sitting on too within 50 yards before I squeezed the trigger.

After all he was closer to the truck! albeit only 50 yards....

But then Everyone's hunting conditions and styles are not the same.

As much as I love shooting, Hunting has always been my passion.

 

[appalichian hunter]

If GOD told me I could only hunt one animal in my life it would be the whitetail deer they are fascinating creatures.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Seems to be the pioneers, indians, and such, did well with there’s.

 

[tenngun]

WHY would i want to get with in 50 yards in open country? when i can knock them down at 200 yards. that was a senseless reply. i laughed my butt off. but anybody can say anything here. you want me to crawl though needle grass on my belly just so i can shoot a deer with a smooth bore. boy that makes a lot of sense. your welcome to it, lots of state and federal land for you to do just that on here. i may even come and watch.

Why do you hunt. And why use a ml at all? Ther are many guns that can get you good clean kills at a thousand yards. Stake out a hill and seeing some game at half a mile or so will give you great odds of seeing something shootable.
We hunt for food but we don’t need it. None of us have to tighten our belts if we get skunked on a hunt. I went after turkey this spring and didn’t get a shot. I’m still ‘chiefly proportioned’.
We pick up a flint gun or a smoothie as a challenge. Can we take a deer with primitive equipment.
Can I build a fire, can I make a comfortable camp and sleep warm. Can I cook a tasty meal? Can I walk a goodly distance in old shoes or moccs,
This sport isn’t about getting a dead deer, it’s about leaning a skill that gets you to a dead deer in a way they did in past days.

 

[appalichian hunter]

tenngun , your beating a dead horse with this one, some folks get it some do not. As you I like the challenge of a long rifle, I enjoy the facts that if I was in the original time frame we try to emulate I could do it and hopefully fit in. Just the fact of statement (I CAN KNOCK THEM DOWN AT 200 YARDS) said enough for me. Even if I hunt with a modern weapon which I do the tactics never change as with a primitive weapon. SKILL my friend is what it is about. I can knock em down out to 600 yds. and beyond, but I keep that type of shooting for the range as a matter of fact going Monday to KNOCK THEM DOWN with a old Marine buddy but those targets would be hard on the teeth (steel)

 

[Irishmusket]

WHY would i want to get with in 50 yards in open country? when i can knock them down at 200 yards. that was a senseless reply. i laughed my butt off. but anybody can say anything here. you want me to crawl though needle grass on my belly just so i can shoot a deer with a smooth bore. boy that makes a lot of sense. your welcome to it, lots of state and federal land for you to do just that on here. i may even come and watch.

Here in wilds of New England in particular Massachusetts most shots are taken at 60 or less yards more often closer than that all you need is a good shooting smooth bore musket shot or ball it will serve you well very well indeed here .My third model brown bess has proven to be my best hunting buddy has never let me down in 40 years of very successful hunting dear bears rabbits turkeys tree rats pheasants grouse with my 75 cal flintlock musket.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I've killed deer out over a 100 yards with modern guns, But never with a muzzleloader. Not that I can't , I just choose not too...

I watched this ol boy stroll in from over 100 yards out.
I let him come up the hill I was sitting on too within 50 yards before I squeezed the trigger.

After all he was closer to the truck! albeit only 50 yards....

LOL - That one made me smile.
Several years ago I stopped hunting with "those others" and dedicated myself to out of the box spot and stalk.
My enjoyment of hunting and being outdoors was rejuvenated. Also, as my age increases my willingness to do long drags has decreased.
Now I try to tailor a kill close to trail access where I can drag on canvas with a 4-wheeler.
My slowly degenerating knees just don't allow heavy lifting and long pulls anymore.
My zeal for venison however, has not seen any degeneration!

 

[smo]

I do all I can too encourage them to not walk across or along my trails....

Sometimes it takes a little smoke too make them understand!

With bad knees and a bad back it sure makes loading one a lot easier...

LOL