Reading patches

[BrownBear]

I bet you're going to be a happy camper now. One of my hunting pards got a recent GM-IBS in 58 cal, and went right down the same path you did at the range. He tuffed it out with lots of cussing and arm flapping to go with his shooting, rather than attacking the bore. Things finally smoothed out after a couple of hundred shots, and it's a real shooter now. You're time with the steel wool likely saved you all sorts of cussing and a whole lot of powder and lead! :thumbsup:

 

[kelvinator]

well...I hope so.
Weather forcast looks promising for this weekend here.
Gonna start out low on the powder charge for sure.

K

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Where do you get your .54 OP buttons? I can't find any! :idunno:

There are other options for a "firewall". Some folks punch their own felt wads from old hats, boot-liners, or Duro-Felt (should be in the Suppliers links). Many folks use a second patch - even a cleaning patch works - seated on the powder before you load the patch & ball. I often use the semi-intact patches I police up after shooting. Paul V. and other have done a fair bit of work with a loose filler like corn meal or grits in a manner similar to using a fat pinch of crushed wasp-nest material. What you want is something big enough and/or loose enough that the initial pressure from the powder gasses will wedge your firewall around the periphery of your patched ball to seal BEHIND the patch/bore interface. Some have used stiff wads, but they need to be strong enough to take the full force of the powder gasses without collapsing around the back of the ball. Speaking of which reminds me that many people use the next size larger of bore button or other felt or fibre wad (e.g .54 wad in a .50 barrel) to allow for the wad wrapping around the back of the ball and still reaching far enough to jam into the periphery.

Regards,
Joel

 

[kelvinator]

Well, just thought I'd report on the progress.
Got to shoot a couple times here last week and really, there's not much progress.
Eh....maybe a little. I can get pretty good groups with 50gr goex fff but above that it goes away.
Guess it's a little progress.
Patches look near perfect @ 50gr but like the accuracy, they go away with more powder.
The last cleaning, I hit it some more with the 0000 steel wool and then got some JB bore paste after it.
Then, for fun, I slugged the barrel with an oversize RB. Bore dia. = .501" and across the grooves I got .530" for a depth of .0145".
Been shooting .490" RB and .018" pillow tick patch.
I think if I could shoot more, it'd come around quicker, but, at the local range, with all the cartridge guns and "cease fires", it's hard to get off more than 20 or so shots in a couple hours.
Oh yeah.....and I dressed the muzzle with the thumb and emory cloth procedure. Three progessivly finer grits in stages, and got a really sweet radius on the crown now.
Not givin' up, just warmin' up.

 

[Zonie]

If your not already using it, you might want to try making some of Stumpkillers "Moose Juice". http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/203261/
Wet the dry patch just before loading making it moderately damp.

With a moderately damp patch you do not need to wipe the bore between shots. You just pour the powder, place the patch on the muzzle and the ball on the patch and ram it home.

Doing this not only speeds up loading but any of the fouling that's in the bore gets knocked down on top of the powder load rather than down in the breech under the powder.

The dampness will help the patch resist burning when used with the more powerful powder loads.

 

[kelvinator]

Na...haven't tried that YET.
But I'll have some with me for the next session for sure.
Thanks for the link.

 

[kelvinator]

Can I find the ingredients at most drug stores?

 

[Zonie]

Yup. Castor oil is a laxitive and witch hazel is popular with women who want to improve their faces. Well, I should say, the skin on their faces. :rotf:


They might not have Murphy's Oil Soap but most hardware stores will.
While your there, if you couldn't find the Isopropyl Alcohol (91%), the "denatured alcohol" in the hardware stores paint section will work fine. It will also give you a good product for wiping the bore of your rifle because it contains almost no water and drys very rapidly.

 

[kelvinator]

Well.....found it all at the local Wallgreen's.
Got it mixed up and ready to go.
:hatsoff:

 

[kelvinator]

Got to shoot a little yesterday.
GMB-IBS in .50cal for TC Renegade.
Pathches @ 50gr. looked good so went up to 60gr. Probaly should have only went to 55gr.
Really thought I had something good working after shots #2,3 & 4, then #5 ****** me off so I fired #6 and then #7 & 8 just ruined my day.
Upon recovering the patches that I could, seems something still ain't right.
At 50gr. patches look good but @ 60gr. they tear out.
Swabbed tween each shot with moose milk, once in and out. Really seemed to help with the concistency.
Not sure if it's still a ruff spot in barrel or what.
Didn't have time to try any OP wads, but will next time.

I got this idea that if I set the patches on the muzzle with the stripes running the same way each time, maybe I can tell if they tear out in the same spot every time ?

Forgot to set date code on camera.

 

[kelvinator]

Zonie, sorry I didn't remember your post about using the moose milk for patch lube while shooting yesterday.
I used the moose milk for tween shot swabs instead of patch lube....
My patches were pre lubed with wonderlube I think. I did wipe them off before loading as they semed awfully soaked with the stuff.

 

[Zonie]

When you say, "My patches were pre lubed with wonderlube I think." that may be a key to the problem.

Although roundball says he has never had a problem with pre lubed patches I have had problems.

I bought some "pre lubricated" patches from a gun shop and had no idea how old they were. They could have sit on the gunshop shelf for years.

When used with moderately heavy powder loads they all blew into pieces just like your patches are doing.

When this happened I did a lot of research and found that the oils over a period of time can greatly weaken the cotton fibers. These weakened patches may work well with low powder loads but they simply cannot take the increased pressures and heat from larger powder loads.

After throwing those pre lubed patches away and replacing them with un-lubricated patches my blown patch problem went away.

This was long before I switched to store bought fabric and I can say that the store bought pillow ticking has also proven to be strong and not to rip even with heavy powder loads.

Of course I had to start lubricating my patches but I found that if I heated up some Bore Butter in a cat food can and soaked the patches in it the night before I went shooting my loading time at the range stayed the same.
When pre-lubing the patches this way I squeeze out all of the excess lube while it is still warm and store the patches in a zip lock bag.

 

[kelvinator]

Ya, I can see how that could be an issue.
I'll get some fresh, dry fabric before the next range session.

 

[Zonie]

I should probably mention that now that you have some of Stumpies Moose Juice you can put some of it into a little plastic squeeze bottle and lube the patch right before loading.

Doing this makes "wiping" between shots unnecessary because each time you load the wet patch will wipe the bore clean making loading easy as pie.

 

[kelvinator]

Ya....got some in a squeeze bottle ready to go. Bought a yard of pillow tick at the fabric store today. Forgot to take the calipers with me but checked it out when I got home.....right at .018-.019.
Seems I read somewhere you should launder this stuff once to remove the starch or sizeing?
Maybe just run it through the rinse cycle once and let it air dry?
About how wet should the patch be with this stuff? Just damp or more wet but not dripping?
Thanks for all the help....think I'm starting to get somewhere with all this.

 

[woodse guy]

Wash 2 time start to finish you want to get all the sizing out.