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Real black powder

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I've been shooting muzzleloaders since around 1979 when I built a Thompson Center 54 caliber Hawken kit. I used both BP (Goex) and Pyrodex. I much preferred the Goex. Fouling was softer and cleanup was easier. Pyrodex also fouled the bore faster with accuracy degrading very quickly in any rifle I used it in. When I began loading cartridges with BP in the mid-1980s, I again used both Goex and Pyrodex (all that was available). But, I found again that Pyrodex was much harder to clean and flash rusted my bores... It's quite disturbing to clean a Shiloh Sharps and put it away in the safe, then come back the next day with a light coating of flash rust all down the bore! When I shot Goex thru it, all I needed was to rinse out the bore with hot water, then coat liberally with a lube that stayed in place. With Pyrodex, I'd have to come back the next day and clean it again, usually at least twice more. My last opened can of Pyrodex went directly on the flower garden. I've won several cans over the years... I refuse them. I recently bought a case of 3F APP to use in my pistol caliber cartridges when my supply of Goex Cartridge runs out. It seems to work well, and cleans up just like my Goex Cartridge. In my C&B firearms, I'm only using Goex 2 & 3F as appropriate. But will have to change to another BP as my supply runs out.
 
I prefer Pyrodex P in revolvers I get better ignition less fouling, Triple seven in 45-70, 44-40 cartridges less fouling, mostly black powder in my rifles I have used 777 or Pyrodex in the lean times I thoroughly clean and lubricate after every shooting session never had a problem with rust.
Bought a .54 TC Hawken from a guy only fired it 5-6 shots with Pyrodex hung it over the fireplace mid 80's never cleaned it that barrel was toast, the bore was crackled with pits tried to clean it best I could literally hammered a ball down hopeless gave the barrel it to a buddy turned into a smooth bore.
 
Don’t understand why some are using substitutes when it’s very easy to have the real thing. In my area out west many BP clubs order BP by the case and then sell to members as needed. Currently my club charges $27 per lb of BP which to me seems quite reasonable. My club purchases mixed case from “Travelers Antiques and Trading“. In Texas.
Doc,
 
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We are in this to recreate the old ways. If you want to 'substitute' put away the ml rifle/pistol and get a bolt action rifle or a cartridge accepting handgun. Doing it the old way presents challenges and those are part of the history learning and enjoying aspects of this game.
EDIT: I'll soften my stance a bit for certain circumstances. When real bp is hard to find, using 'sub' powders may be the only way to continue to use the guns we favor here. I'll forgive ye for thet. :thumb:
Even back in the 1970 and on black was not easy to find, rules for storing was reason. Wal-Mart and Kmart would put T-7 and Pyrodex on clearance in January, sometimes 2/3 off. Bought it all. Still got several cans left and using it, works just fine.
 
I too used 777 for a couple months when I couldn’t find bp and it worked fine in my percussion guns all with #11 caps but now that I have a supply of bp it’s back to the real thing. Call it habit or nostalgia or just call me cheap . The bp I just purchased was $32 a can. The 777 I bought in march was $50
 
I only use substitutes. In California we're allowed to have only one pound of black powder.
Oh, contraire my friend. Maybe your city fire department has some more restrictive rules... but according to my search, state law continues to read:

§5373. Black Powder Propellants.​


(a) All black powder propellants shall be stored in shipping containers approved by the U.S. Department of Transportation.
(b) Quantities of black powder propellant in excess of 50 pounds shall be stored in an outdoor magazine.

(c) If smokeless propellants are stored in the same magazine with black powder propellants, the total quantity shall not exceed that permitted for black powder propellants.

NOTE

Authority cited: Section 142.3, Labor Code. Reference: Section 142.3, Labor Code.

HISTORY

1. Repealer of subsections (b) and (c), subsection relettering and new Note filed 7-11-2003; operative 8-10-2003 (Register 2003, No. 28).

I'd lived in CA for nearly 38 years when I moved in 1990, in several Orange County cities or communities, and never encountered such. Never purchased BP in less than 5 lb. quantities. The above applies mostly to retailer or wholesalers. Not to personal possession for lawful use. You do know that it's illegal to possess Black Powder, Pipe and Pipe fittings, right? Oh yeah... IF you have the intent to make a bomb.
 
I prefer BP in all my guns. I have had some issues with poor ignition with Pyrodex in precussion rifles...delayed ignition specifically...click-bang! I have used both T7 and Pdx in cartridge rifles and done well. Actually won a couple matches (BPCR sil.) with pdx in a .38-55. I used t7 in a .45-90 for several years occasionally winning, but the T7 would leave a crusty ring ahead of the chamber especially in hot weather. Shot to shot variations in velocity were less with true black powder in both MZLdrs and cartridge guns. My best groups and best scores have always been with black powder with possible exception of pyrodex in the .38-55 which shoots MOA with either.
 
Griff093, as written in California Gun Laws, 6th edition, authored by attorneys C.D. Michel with Matthew D. Cubeuro, starting on page 511, it states under California Health and Safety Code section 12101 that California residents are allowed to posses a maximum of 20 pounds of smokeless and 1 pound of black powder without having a explosive permit issued by the state. It is my understanding that a violation of this code could result in a felony conviction. Sir, in closing I would like to state, that since you left California in 1990 many of our firearm laws and regulations have change and I for one will continue to due my best to follow our laws and regulations. Best regards to you and all others on this forum.
 
Griff093, as written in California Gun Laws, 6th edition, authored by attorneys C.D. Michel with Matthew D. Cubeuro, starting on page 511, it states under California Health and Safety Code section 12101 that California residents are allowed to posses a maximum of 20 pounds of smokeless and 1 pound of black powder without having a explosive permit issued by the state. It is my understanding that a violation of this code could result in a felony conviction. Sir, in closing I would like to state, that since you left California in 1990 many of our firearm laws and regulations have change and I for one will continue to due my best to follow our laws and regulations. Best regards to you and all others on this forum.
You might want to read the section for yourself... Section 12101 is specifically for Explosives, does not mention either black powder or smokeless, nor any quantities, Section 12100 does however (see below quote). Links provided so you can find them easily. It appears to pertain to those engaged in businesses involving the use of explosives. While I'm not an attorney, I was a cop... and am quite familiar with how CA laws are written and organized. And hold a deep distrust of attorneys. They're more about CYA, generating revenue and business than actually providing good advice. Check with your local DA for his interpretation, far more important than mine or a pair of self-serving ambulance chasers anyone else's.
Universal Citation: CA Health & Safety Code § 12001 (2022)
12001. This part does not apply to any of the following:

(a) Any person engaged in the transportation of explosives regulated by, and when subject to, the provisions of Division 14 (commencing with Section 31600) of the Vehicle Code.

(b) Small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less when designated as a division 1.4 explosive by the United States Department of Transportation.

(c) Fireworks regulated under Part 2 (commencing with Section 12500) of this division, including, but not limited to, special effects pyrotechnics regulated by the State Fire Marshal pursuant to Section 12555.

(d) Any explosives while in the course of transportation via railroad, aircraft, water, or highway when the explosives are in actual movement and under the jurisdiction of and in conformity with regulations adopted by the United States Department of Transportation, United States Coast Guard, or the Federal Aviation Agency. However, no explosives shall be sold, given away, or delivered except as provided in Section 12120.

(e) Special fireworks classified by the United States Department of Transportation as division 1.3 explosives when those special fireworks are regulated under Part 2 (commencing with Section 12500) of this division, when a permit has been issued pursuant to regulations of the State Fire Marshal.

(f) (1) Black powder in quantities of 25 pounds or less in the hands of a retailer having a permit issued under Article 2 (commencing with Section 6066) of Chapter 2 of Part 1 of Division 2 of the Revenue and Taxation Code and in quantities of five pounds or less in the hands of all others and smokeless powder in quantities of 20 pounds or less used, possessed, stored, sold, or transported that is exempted under, or authorized by, the Federal Organized Crime Control Act of 1970 (Public Law 91-452) and applicable federal regulations thereunder.

(2) All cities, counties, and special districts and county service areas providing fire protection shall require retailers in possession of black powder to notify fire authorities.
 

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