Real or Not - Tower 1819 Flintlock Pistol

[jonathan.shaffner]

Community, I am looking for thoughts and scientific opinions as to the authenticity of this pistol. Thanks.

 

[jonathan.shaffner]

Link

Link2

I'll try this way...

 

[Don]

Looks original to me.

Don

 

[Wes/Tex]

Looks to be a privately owned or officer's variation of the "Light Dragoon" pistol then in use by the British military. It has an octagon barrel rather than the round barrel of issued arms and I have no idea what the swivel band and chain are all about. Be nice to know what's at the other end, obviously not the ramrod! And, it appears the lock is dated 1814 rather than 1819.

 

[pargent]

There is no way to tell without looking at the proofs on the top of the barrel and makers marks on the bottom of the barrel, the lock makers marks and assy. marks on the inside of the lock , then compare them to British records etc .

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

I have to say that it looks like a modern made piece to me. The octagon barrel is dead wrong, even for an officers pistol - sorry Wes. Also, the trigger guard and rear pipe appear to be modern but there are not really good photos to see them well. And the shape of the stock directly in front of the lock is not at all as graceful as it should be on an officer's custom made pistol of the 1814 period.

The markings on the lock are wrong, especially in the way they are applied.

The ramrod is certainly modern but that doesn't really say anything against the rest of the pistol, they are easily lost and it could just be a temporary modern replacement.

Are there legitimate period British proof marks on the barrel?

 

[jonathan.shaffner]

I looked at these under a jeweler's loupe, they are very uniform in depth and clean marks. I haven't found any definitive - this is what stamps should look like anywhere. There are matching crown and 2 stamps on all metal pieces, uniformly placed and clean.

Link

 

[TFoley]

I have to say that it looks like a modern made piece to me. The octagon barrel is dead wrong, even for an officers pistol - sorry Wes. Also, the trigger guard and rear pipe appear to be modern but there are not really good photos to see them well. And the shape of the stock directly in front of the lock is not at all as graceful as it should be on an officer's custom made pistol of the 1814 period.

The markings on the lock are wrong, especially in the way they are applied.

The ramrod is certainly modern but that doesn't really say anything against the rest of the pistol, they are easily lost and it could just be a temporary modern replacement.

Are there legitimate period British proof marks on the barrel?

Yup.

Nice, but no coconut.

If it WAS made recently in any of the CIP countries then it must, by law, have had the appropriate proof marks applied originally. Of course, in the USA you have no requirement for these stamps to be retained, and the practice of de-farbing - illegal here in Yoorup - is not only commonplace, but required by some folks.

If it was Indian-made, and THEN sold in UK/Europe, then, again, it must have been stamped after having been proofed in the CIP country in which it was sold.

tac

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Thanks for posting the proof marks on the barrel. They answer your original question "Real or Not" quite nicely. I'm afraid it is Not. They are not proofmarks from the period of the pistols marked date of 1819. Nor are they from any other period that I am aware of.

I'm very sorry, please don't take offense, none is intended. The above remarks can be considered, after all, my opinion and someone else may tell you differently. But, I do base what I say on what I have seen over the last 40 or so years.

 

[jonathan.shaffner]

I had my hesitations, the octagonal barrel is one thing I couldn't find anywhere else. It is a pretty gun though. I am new to this game and might have gotten taken. Was $200 too much to pay for this, even if it is a replica?

 

[torn moc]

well...I think so...and probably more. If you don't like it sell it to me. :grin:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

I don't think $200 is too much as long as you are happy with it.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I have to say that it looks like a modern made piece to me. The octagon barrel is dead wrong, even for an officers pistol - sorry Wes.

Not a problem. I probably should have used the term "based on" since somebody tried to match a known pattern. Have to agree that the proof marks aren't right either, judging by what's shown in the photo above. It appears that there may be something stamped along the barrel side flat just below the proof stamping...be interesting to know what that is as well.

 

[jonathan.shaffner]

There aren't any other stamps on the barrel, there is a crossed sabers stamp on the wood and a crown and a 2 on all metal pieces. I really wonder the origin of the pistol, the wood is nicely finished and the mechanism is very crisp.

 

[Billnpatti]

Original? or reproduction? I am not qualified to say one way or the other. But, either way, it appears to be a well made pistol. If it is as well made as it appears in the pictures, and it shoots well, I would think that it is worth the $200.

 

[KABAR2]

As others have stated new made... possibly with some older parts....

A few observations: Lock date uneven numbers applied separately Crown over “GR” the “GR” is off center still during the reign of George III died 1820”¦. Lock geometry looks off pan too small modern frizzen spring and frizzen tail on frizzen too long cock is a late style cock more 1830’s

Barrel: markings wrong modern style”¦. Rear sight part of barrel this looks more Middle Eastern or Eastern than English or European”¦. Again note long tail on frizzen”¦..

Sling swivel with "chain" sling.... neve seen on a English or European pistol....

Did this come out of Afganistan or Pakistan? :hmm:

One last constructive critism.... your photo's are pretty good as to detail but a dark brown stock on brown background kills some details use a contrasting background for better detail...

 

[jonathan.shaffner]

this particular pistol did come from a shop close to a military base, but was of much higher quality than other I have seen that are known to be from the AF/PAK area. I picked it up on a hunch and the look of it. I do appreciate this forum's input and knowledge.

If nothing else, it will nicely accent my son's pirate costume this fall.

 

[robinghewitt]

Was $200 too much to pay for this, even if it is a replica?

Certainly not it is so well made and such a nice piece of wood. I'd have bought it. Did you take the barrel out to look for marks underneath?

The stamps look really good but a couple of the letters look squiffy.

 

[jonathan.shaffner]

I'll do that and let you know. Haven't had the chance to look inside.

 

[bpd303]

The gunsmiths of the Khyber Pass region have been making copies of British arms for over a hundred years. Most notably the Martini Henry. Some of the copies are very good and others are pipe bombs. It looks like yours is well made. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khyber_Pass_Copy