Recent article on the slow-creep of eliminating historic reenactments (this one's in Pennsylvannia)...

[sturmkatze]

I should mention: you don’t need spectators at re-enactments. Some of the best don’t have them. And, while some will disagree, public battles and spectators are not the sole reason for existence of reenacting. For some it is, but not always.

Guess what: the average visitor doesn’t care about your textiles and such. Especially kids—they want to see stuff blow up and guns shoot.

Biggest thing is that you don’t get to tell others what to do. @Beau Robbins you are not in charge nor are you the majority.

 

[user 53891]

I should mention: you don’t need spectators at re-enactments. Some of the best don’t have them. And, while some will disagree, public battles and spectators are not the sole reason for existence of reenacting. For some it is, but not always.

Guess what: the average visitor doesn’t care about your textiles and such. Especially kids—they want to stuff blow up it guns shoot.

Biggest thing is that you don’t get to tell others what to do. @Beau Robbins you are not in charge nor are you the majority.

You know....you're gonna hurt somebody's itty bitty feelin's....Ya just gotta love the1st amendment!

 

[user 34486]

I don't recall ever trying to tell anyone what to do, so if I did, I could really use the help by anyone quoting any part of my comments that did. Thanks!

 

[sturmkatze]

I don't recall ever trying to tell anyone what to do, so if I did, I could really use the help by anyone quoting any part of my comments that did. Thanks!

Yes you did. Your condescending bloviation was full of it. Go stand and preen. You’re not a reenactor, you’re a mannequin.

 

[user 34486]

I'm kinda dense. You're going to need to quote it. Thanks again!

 

[user 53891]

I'm kinda dense. You're going to need to quote it. Thanks again!

Well, I believe he means your entire statement was condescending....am I correct sturmkatze?

 

[sturmkatze]

I'm kinda dense. You're going to need to quote it. Thanks again!

No. I’m on my phone. Way too much work to do that. You posted an über-long post that looked down upon battle reenactments. Whilst I have to occasionally do some stand-and-preen events, I don’t like them. I really don’t care about ye olde publick. Bad me. I don’t do this stuff to edjakate the chillens — power to those that do.

It’s a big hobby, big enough for everyone, but not when you sell your fellows down the river. Maybe I sounded harsh, but I’ve been a reenactor for like 33 years. I’m pro-reenactor, but what I’m not is this idea that some are better than others. We’re all on the same team and giving an inch hurts all of us.

And just for the record: I don’t support museums — the vast majority of whom treat us reenactors like crap. Same for the nps… eff them. Very woke.

 

[sturmkatze]

Oh yes, changing to a new phone, so more typos than usual. Sorry. Fixing them as I see them. I will say that the iPhone is better than the galaxy has become.

 

[user 53891]

Oh yes, changing to a new phone, so more typos than usual. Sorry. Fixing them as I see them. I will say that the iPhone is better than the galaxy has become.

all of them are overpriced. I use mine for what it was originally intended. Portable telephone. Con't stand looking at a tiny website.

 

[sturmkatze]

all of them are overpriced. I use mine for what it was originally intended. Portable telephone. Con't stand looking at a tiny website.

If they’re built right, it works. I’m redoing reenactor.net to be mobile, but not there yet. However, www.romanobritain.com is fully mobile. It wraps around and changes on mobile so that it’s readable. As a web designer, you need to do that. No, I’m not perfect

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I'd be interested in tracking spectatorship to battle reenactments. From my perspective, people really aren't coming to battle centric events. Consider as well, most progressive battle centric events that I'm aware of aren't even open to the public. There are more and more reenactments closed off from the public view, which objectively have nothing to offer in the way of public education. Even when they are, the numbers just aren't there compared to smaller living history events. The one I attended in Savannah just this weekend we had almost 2500 come through the gate on Saturday alone, whereas the much larger battle of Brandywine near Philly had but several hundreds throughout the weekend. Comparatively in the civil war genre, the battle of Cedar Mountain had a few dozen spectators.

So the events that I'm seeing that are open to the public, they're not bringing in the numbers to make them worth the effort. Perhaps it's just different where you're at.

Alright..., perhaps your analysis is poor ???

Just a few years ago, Mount Vernon the former home of George Washington got a new president of the group that runs the property. Nice fellow ; used to be the VP at Time/Life books. MV is privately owned by a non-profit, so it's not part of the National Park Service budget nor VA's, though it may get endowments from time to time. The new president introduced force on force reenactment, because..., the living history program that is open year-round at that location was doing very poorly with gate fees and other moneys, and the property was very run down due to poor income. So much for the idea that battles don't help much....,

NOW ..., because of the massive attendance by the public for the ... battle centric event..., a single event ... each year...., plus some other adjustments, they are pulling in rather impressive funds to put toward renovation.

The difference may be that Brandywine in PA isn't well advertised, and has poor geography for spectators and does not advertise well ; Wormsloe in Savannah does advertise well, and is much smaller and easier to traverse for the public.

Further, the reason the National Park Service doesn't want a huge battle event on the property is that their funding actually suffers from such, NOT because such events don't work to bring in spectators and generate funds. The National Park Service would prefer attendance to go DOWN. Humans cause a lot of wear and tear on the property. This boosts costs for preservation, and when the budget comes from Congress, and isn't dependent on gate fees, that's what happens. On the state level, when the state is dealing with inflation, and looking to cut corners, the legislators..., cut public programs at libraries and parks..., even when there are no battle reenactments. Because preserving a site is one thing, dealing with the impact of tourists then drives up their costs, and is another.

LD

 

[Mousegunguy]

And just for the record, people don’t go to museums or historical places to look at quilts and pottery… and at historical events, they don’t want to see stand-and-preen dorks bloviating about dumb things. They want to see battle reenactments and such.

YOU are part of the problem.

And just for the record, you are incorrect in your assumption that folk only come to museums for the battles.
Because you find it interesting doesn’t mean everyone else thinks like you.
I worked in a multitude of different rolls at one of the largest living history museums in the United States for over 15 years.
From my personal observations most museum visitors DONT care about battles.

 

[user 34486]

You raise some good points Dave, but as I stated right off, I don't have the metrics to track attendence which is obviously impacted by many variables, like MV being in NOVA and Brandywine not having a marketing department. Next time I'm with Doug I'll ask him about the metrics, but I'm well aware that the event predates Dr. Bradburn's tenure as CEO, so that's hardly the case. Jason is the interpretive coordinator and has much more to do with the way things have been running recently than Doug. While the May event at MV brings in large numbers, the free days in February do as well, which was also the case at Wormsloe in Savannah last weekend which undoubtedly skews the numbers. The May MV event also features many other living history and trades demos of which the battle just one short component. Either way it's a moot point as none of these events will be effected by the new PA state policy.

 

[sturmkatze]

And just for the record, you are incorrect in your assumption that folk only come to museums for the battles.
Because you find it interesting doesn’t mean everyone else thinks like you.
I worked in a multitude of different rolls at one of the largest living history museums in the United States for over 15 years.
From my personal observations most museum visitors DONT care about battles.

No I am not. As Dave stated above, the people come for the battles and stay for the other stuff. Just because you believe Che was right, don’t mean that he was. Woke l eftists have destroyed museums.

 

[Mousegunguy]

No I am not. As Dave stated above, the people come for the battles and stay for the other stuff. Just because you believe Che was right, don’t mean that he was. Woke l eftists have destroyed museums.

Odd, seeing as there was usually only one ‘battle weekend’ a year we still had thousands come for the ‘other stuff’ on non battle days.
The battle weekend was a big draw for sure. but to say it’s the only reason people come is disingenuous to say the least.

 

[sturmkatze]

Which museum are you referencing? I’m guessing that you work there? If you don’t need reenactors, okay. Say so.

Again, I usually see museum folk treat reenactors with contempt, etc. Private battles are way better. You don’t actually need dress balls and other staples.

 

[Mousegunguy]

The museum I worked for didn’t use ‘reenactors’ We used professional historical interpreters that received a week + long basic training along with weekly training sessions and a more specialized training for each exhibit you were assigned too.
We were also give time to research topics that were of interest to us or for programs we wanted to develop in our research library. We had access to our giant collections of period artifacts if we wanted a new piece to reproduce in one of the craft shops.
I’m sure there are plenty of reenactors that do serious research and are well versed in their areas of interest. Unfortunately there are also total idiots spouting complete hogwash as if it were gospel

 

[Mad L]

I did not have the grace of growing up on the east coast or mid west where these large battles were/are done nor where hallow ground is rich in history. I grew up on the west coast (don't pity), I grew up with reenactors at Maritime Museums and I can say (from where I came from) the museums, for the most part, Hated us reenactors! We have been told so, we have been refused entrance, one ship would not even allow us to step foot onboard.
I was once told (to my face) "We don't want the public mistaking you for our docent", same comment at another 'exhibit'. I had a reenactor friend who got a job at the San Diego Maritime museum and told us several things she had heard said behind our backs.
For these places/events we were to stay 'within our camp areas', kind of 'be seen but not heard'.

Now, it's their house, their rules. But on the other hand, when battles, performances, etc were done; myself, my wife, friends, we would look at the attire that the Museum would send their folk out wearing (cheap fabric, even...Plastic hats??)...yes, we would snicker, but tried not to point.

But stepping back; people, even me, went for the Experiance. I went for the battle, for the camps, for the exhibits (textiles, pottery, etc) and even for the lectures (some good, some laughable)....but the main attraction always was: The Battles!

True the battles were not always for everyone; I recall one year at Dana Point (before the Pilgram sank) they were reenacting the capture of Jean Lafitte. Actually a silly little play but it Packed in the crowd! Well, that one year I was not in the show due to an injury so I got to enjoy watching - when the deck cannons began to bellow and the raiding dingy came out blasting pistol and rifle in return - I noticed this one spectator, probably in his early 20s, he was on the ground curled up with his friend next to him and the curled up kid was complaining "Why do they have to shoot Guns?!!"
Okay, I know what some of you are thinking but I can assure you he was Not military; we are taking about a Southern California college kid.

Another, less dramatic, time; I was sitting below deck and various photographs passing through and snapping photos of when suddenly this little boy came through, I had my flint pistol held, pointing up for a camera guy, this SHOUTED "A GUN!!" and took off running like a little jackrabbit...I his mother call out "Oh Timmy, knock it off!" (There where dozens and dozens of pirates all over the place carrying swords and guns...but few 'looked real' like I guess)

End of story: People (non-reenactors) go to places for ALL reasons; battles, performances, and exhibits. They go for 'The Experiance'.

 

[Brazos John]

I was with the Texas Army this past Saturday at Washington On The Brazos in Texas to celebrate the signing of the Texas Declaration of Independence on March 1, 1836. We had our camp set up, with other reenactor groups, and had visitors throughout the day. Spectators also visited the food trucks and vendors that were not within eyesight of the historical camps. It was laid out nicely.
But, the biggest attractions, with a larger attendance than the Indian dances, were the cannon and rifle volleys. A pair of cannon would fire, we would fire a rifle salute after announcing the honorees (first responders, current and past military, and past Texas heroes), and repeat another 2 times. Even without force-on-force action, the spectators gave us a nice round of applause.

I enjoy telling folks, especially kids, about my percussion rifle. I explained how it is loaded and is fired, and for part of the day, a flintlock shooter was with me, and we would explain the differences. It's important to tone your explanations to the audience. Most kids know about the red plastic caps for cap guns, so I use that in my explanation. I tell them that there's a hole in the nipple, because it's not easy to see, and explain how the spark travels to the main charge. And when the parents want to take photos, I make sure the kid gets to hold my rifle. None of them have said No. If we don't get the kids interested, we're the last ones that will enjoy this passion.

Late in March, the Texas Army will be at Goliad, for the Fannin Massacre. We will have Tex-Mex skirmishes, camps, and the betrayal and execution of Col. Fannin and his 342 men at the Presidio La Bahia, on the grounds of the actual event. It's a long drive from most Texas cities, but we get a good number of spectators for the 2-day event. Texas doesn't have the centuries of armed conflict like the Northeast does, but the Texas history is intense.

I was born 118 years after Goliad and San Jacinto, and appreciate the chance I have to retell the stories, and hopefully, inspire some folks to join our ranks.