Recommendations on SxS?

[dodger]

Typical answer from a novice who does not seem to know the true tradition of a smoothbore muzzle loader and its many ignitions. A repro kept to tradition does not need fixed chokes ect,ect .
Feltwad

You chide me sir , a "novice" I may be , but then I do not claim to be an expert and indeed I even had to look up 'ignitions' and I found out that it means initiating exothermic chemical reactions, so that's another fact locked away in my cranium .
I come to this forum to learn and to converse with and be entertained by fellow enthusiasts . From your responses , I see that you have much to contribute .
Enjoy shooting your traditional original guns and I shall enjoy shooting my uncouth repros .A bird killed with a repro is just as dead as a bird shot with an original and tastes just as good on the plate .
Today's repro shooter may develop a passion for original guns , think about that for a while.

[By the Way , being a chastened novice, I had to look up 'ect' as well and it is an abbreviation for electro convulsive therapy ]

Have fun and be happy .

 

[DickS]

Went to the range yesterday with some guns to do some shooting.
One is a Navy Arms/Pietta 12ga double. Perfectly good gun, good shooter, on the heavy side, doesn't handle as well as my originals. No concerns about 150 year old welded barrels.
Also tested a Birmingham proofed 11 gauge single. Light, handy, also a good shooter.
And a NY State o/u rifle/ smoothbore.
Also took a couple of British doubles to try. But after shooting the first three, I started thinking about the cleaning I would have to do. They will wait for another day.
I am in Central Ontario, Canada. Decent British or Belgian doubles worth consideration as shooters seem to sell in the $150 - $300 range. Name guns will bring more. But buying an original is very much a pig-in-a-poke situation. Until you can give the gun a really thorough examination, you don't know if it is going to be a shooter or not.
I bought one decent quality British 12ga single. Very respectable externally. Bore was a disaster. With nothing to lose, I decided I would ream it out and install a sleeve. Passed a piloted .750 reamer through. There were still pits. A 4130 Cr-Mo liner solved that problem.
Another was really doggy externally. Reaming to .750 left a clean, smooth bore. Haven't decided if I will leave it at that or install a liner.

 

[nhmoose]

Yes collectors have a different view tradition is what it says not screw in chokes and reproes ,it will be in lines next .
Feltwad

Most here are shooters first and not collectors. Save the snobbery for the collectors please. No offence but reading that post was offensive.

 

[nhmoose]

Went to the range yesterday with some guns to do some shooting.
One is a Navy Arms/Pietta 12ga double. Perfectly good gun, good shooter, on the heavy side, doesn't handle as well as my originals. No concerns about 150 year old welded barrels.
Also tested a Birmingham proofed 11 gauge single. Light, handy, also a good shooter.
And a NY State o/u rifle/ smoothbore.
Also took a couple of British doubles to try. But after shooting the first three, I started thinking about the cleaning I would have to do. They will wait for another day.
I am in Central Ontario, Canada. Decent British or Belgian doubles worth consideration as shooters seem to sell in the $150 - $300 range. Name guns will bring more. But buying an original is very much a pig-in-a-poke situation. Until you can give the gun a really thorough examination, you don't know if it is going to be a shooter or not.
I bought one decent quality British 12ga single. Very respectable externally. Bore was a disaster. With nothing to lose, I decided I would ream it out and install a sleeve. Passed a piloted .750 reamer through. There were still pits. A 4130 Cr-Mo liner solved that problem.
Another was really doggy externally. Reaming to .750 left a clean, smooth bore. Haven't decided if I will leave it at that or install a liner.

The second barrel needs the side walls measured as they my now be very thin. It will take a special instrument that many Double gunsmiths of the modern persuasion will have. Unless you want to try to blow it up or proof.

Modern barrels need at least 20 thousands about the tip of the fore end. I have seen barrels struck to 10 thousands that blew out. Proof in jolly old may also require the 20 thousands to try to proof if I remember correctly.

 

[Feltwad]

No offence intended and diffidently not snobbery.
Feltwad :surrender:

 

[Britsmoothy]

Ah, the meds have kicked :thumbsup:

Note the time gents.

:haha: :haha:

 

[azmntman]

:rotf:

 

[DickS]

Went to the range yesterday with some guns to do some shooting.
One is a Navy Arms/Pietta 12ga double. Perfectly good gun, good shooter, on the heavy side, doesn't handle as well as my originals. No concerns about 150 year old welded barrels.
Also tested a Birmingham proofed 11 gauge single. Light, handy, also a good shooter.
And a NY State o/u rifle/ smoothbore.
Also took a couple of British doubles to try. But after shooting the first three, I started thinking about the cleaning I would have to do. They will wait for another day.
I am in Central Ontario, Canada. Decent British or Belgian doubles worth consideration as shooters seem to sell in the $150 - $300 range. Name guns will bring more. But buying an original is very much a pig-in-a-poke situation. Until you can give the gun a really thorough examination, you don't know if it is going to be a shooter or not.
I bought one decent quality British 12ga single. Very respectable externally. Bore was a disaster. With nothing to lose, I decided I would ream it out and install a sleeve. Passed a piloted .750 reamer through. There were still pits. A 4130 Cr-Mo liner solved that problem.
Another was really doggy externally. Reaming to .750 left a clean, smooth bore. Haven't decided if I will leave it at that or install a liner.

The second barrel needs the side walls measured as they my now be very thin. It will take a special instrument that many Double gunsmiths of the modern persuasion will have. Unless you want to try to blow it up or proof.

Modern barrels need at least 20 thousands about the tip of the fore end. I have seen barrels struck to 10 thousands that blew out. Proof in jolly old may also require the 20 thousands to try to proof if I remember correctly.

Here are the dimensions of the barrel, every 6 inches.
Breech: 1.21"
6": 1.18"
12": .975"
18": .923"
24": .870"
30": .852"
Barrel is 32"long.
If we take the measurement at 12" to be approximately the tip of the forend, wall thickness there would be .110", significantly more than the 20 thou. you mention.

 

[dodger]

Ah, the meds have kicked :thumbsup

:haha: :haha:

Or the 'ect'

 

[Britsmoothy]

Ah, the meds have kicked in:thumbsup:

Note the time gents.

:haha: :haha:

 

[Grenadier1758]

Of course we realize that Britain is about 6 hours ahead of us (CST) so the post was written at about 5 or 6 AM in Britian.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

In the US, even "Gunbroker" will show plenty of choices.

Regarding boring and re-lining old barrels;
Yes, it can be done, but many old barrels were not a true cylinder, and lining them can damage the shooting qualities. (Wider/narrower at breech, cylinder section, then relieved to the muzzle)
Barrels don't need to be perfect to shoot well.
I think that those of us used to modern guns worry too much about surface blemishes.

Best,
Richard.

 

[nhmoose]

Went to the range yesterday with some guns to do some shooting.
One is a Navy Arms/Pietta 12ga double. Perfectly good gun, good shooter, on the heavy side, doesn't handle as well as my originals. No concerns about 150 year old welded barrels.
Also tested a Birmingham proofed 11 gauge single. Light, handy, also a good shooter.
And a NY State o/u rifle/ smoothbore.
Also took a couple of British doubles to try. But after shooting the first three, I started thinking about the cleaning I would have to do. They will wait for another day.
I am in Central Ontario, Canada. Decent British or Belgian doubles worth consideration as shooters seem to sell in the $150 - $300 range. Name guns will bring more. But buying an original is very much a pig-in-a-poke situation. Until you can give the gun a really thorough examination, you don't know if it is going to be a shooter or not.
I bought one decent quality British 12ga single. Very respectable externally. Bore was a disaster. With nothing to lose, I decided I would ream it out and install a sleeve. Passed a piloted .750 reamer through. There were still pits. A 4130 Cr-Mo liner solved that problem.
Another was really doggy externally. Reaming to .750 left a clean, smooth bore. Haven't decided if I will leave it at that or install a liner.

The second barrel needs the side walls measured as they my now be very thin. It will take a special instrument that many Double gunsmiths of the modern persuasion will have. Unless you want to try to blow it up or proof.

Modern barrels need at least 20 thousands about the tip of the fore end. I have seen barrels struck to 10 thousands that blew out. Proof in jolly old may also require the 20 thousands to try to proof if I remember correctly.

Here are the dimensions of the barrel, every 6 inches.
Breech: 1.21"
6": 1.18"
12": .975"
18": .923"
24": .870"
30": .852"
Barrel is 32"long.
If we take the measurement at 12" to be approximately the tip of the forend, wall thickness there would be .110", significantly more than the 20 thou. you mention.

You may come close but will not know unless the tool measures the exact sidewall thickness. Think of a tuning fork style that will measure in ten thousands. They are not cheap do to the length needed. Any good SXS smith will have one as they are neede to work on barrels.

Unmentionable by Ithaca had the barrel struck down in shaping to below .010. They have blown up. the 2 sets of barrels in my old shop measured under the .010.

It is worth it to get them measured most will do it for a nominal fee. It takes only a few minutes. If you are comfortable with what your measurements came out I would go for it as they are way over what is needed. I would shoot them

 

[Lorne Johnson]

There is plenty of discussion of tradition and "period correct" everything, on this board. Tradition certainly is a valid voice here.

 

[Feltwad]

There is plenty of discussion of tradition and "period correct" everything, on this board. Tradition certainly is a valid voice here.

I agree
Feltwad

 

[dodger]

There is plenty of discussion of tradition and "period correct" everything, on this board. Tradition certainly is a valid voice here.

Of course tradition has a valid voice , but your statement is rather abiguous .
Just taking a quick look at the posts on the smoothbore forum , I see that the majority of posts are about reproduction firearms . Be they factory or handmade guns , they are are still repros and not originals .
Even the handmade reproductions are made with modern materials .It is hard to know where to " draw the line ".Is it multichokes? fixed chokes ? stock shape ?
If discussion of such firearms is distasteful to certain members of this forum , then the logical course of action is to lobby the owner/administrator and the moderators to change the remit of the smoothbore forum .
When one innocently answers a seemingly straightforward question and has suffer deprecating snipes by a certain gentleman [ whose name I shall not mention ] .It is hardly condusive to the friendly discussion that we all enjoy and expect here .Sadly, it may also diminish his credibilty if he persists in this manner .

Have fun and enjoy your shooting [ with whatever gun you shoot ].

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Dodger,

What you say is quite valid.
All I will say, its that some of us come from a part of the world where speech is very direct, and can be taken wrong quite easily.
I have now lived over here 35 years so am mellowing down a bit!
Please do not be too hard on gents from other places, where directness is seen as an asset.
Honesty before diplomacy and all that.
My wife is a Yorkshire lass and still says it like is at work, and gets into trouble no end for not wrapping it up!
Her reply is if they don't like it they can lump it.

All the best,
Richard.

 

[dodger]

Dodger,

What you say is quite valid.
All I will say, its that some of us come from a part of the world where speech is very direct, and can be taken wrong quite easily.
I have now lived over here 35 years so am mellowing down a bit!
Please do not be too hard on gents from other places, where directness is seen as an asset.
Honesty before diplomacy and all that.
My wife is a Yorkshire lass and still says it like is at work, and gets into trouble no end for not wrapping it up!
Her reply is if they don't like it they can lump it.

All the best,
Richard.

Haha , Richard .
I also come from that place where speech is very direct but "manners maketh man"and I am perfectly aware of the typical curmudgeon's meaning .

I shall be visiting Blighty this summer so maybe I 'll seek him out and buy him a pint in the spirit of good fellowship .
A pint of bitter maybe ?

Anyroad , I am sure dsayer has already bought his shotgun and forgotten about all this mullarkey .

Tek care o'thissen .

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Dodger,

Another one!.............and you are quite right re. manners.
North Riding in my case.

If over my way, I'll buy you one.
Also, we have our annual Victorian shoot the last full weekend of June. (23rd & 4th this year.)
If interested PM me and I can fill you in a bit.

All the best,
Richard.

 

[dsayer]

Dodger,

What you say is quite valid.
All I will say, its that some of us come from a part of the world where speech is very direct, and can be taken wrong quite easily.
I have now lived over here 35 years so am mellowing down a bit!
Please do not be too hard on gents from other places, where directness is seen as an asset.
Honesty before diplomacy and all that.
My wife is a Yorkshire lass and still says it like is at work, and gets into trouble no end for not wrapping it up!
Her reply is if they don't like it they can lump it.

All the best,
Richard.

Haha , Richard .
I also come from that place where speech is very direct but "manners maketh man"and I am perfectly aware of the typical curmudgeon's meaning .

I shall be visiting Blighty this summer so maybe I 'll seek him out and buy him a pint in the spirit of good fellowship .
A pint of bitter maybe ?

Anyroad , I am sure dsayer has already bought his shotgun and forgotten about all this mullarkey .

Tek care o'thissen .

Not yet dodger! Still searching for the right one (including originals) and debating whether to buy one outright our trade/sell one of my modern shotguns. Couple of big gun shows coming up in Denver I'll check out.

Also, watching the "discussion" here RE: tradition. op: op: op: