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Reducing main spring tension

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barebackjack

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Im still having trouble with my GPR misfiring.
First pull click, (seats the cap), second time a charm.

I have some new nipples on the way (wont be here by this weekend, and need to be hunting).

Someone on this forum mentioned reducing the mainspring tension (that GPR usually have to much force hitting the nipple).

How do you go about this with the coilspring? Just clip a wrap off the spring with a sidecutter?

Also, whats the best way to measure the force the hammer is falling with? And what is an acceptable force?

Thanks

Boone
 
I am no expert, but I know you don'tcut any off. I just did a frizzen spring. I just filed off some of the out side of spring. I watched Balhman and he was filling I think on the bend? I think it was a mainspring ? Maybe some one more informed will chime in. I wouldn't mind knowing myself. Dilly
 
The problem is NOT with your mainspring. The problem is with the nipple.

The caps are NOT seating all the way down on the nipple. It sounds like your problem is that the first strike of the hammer seats the cap, and the second strike fires the cap.

If the mainspring were too heavy, it would smash the cap onto the nipple, firing it the first time. As it stands, it sounds like the nipple is damaged, or your caps are too small.

Using a fine cut file, file down any flaring at the top of the nipple, or slightly reduce the outside diameter of the top of the nipple, so the caps seat all the way down on the nipple.

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT try to reduce the tension of the mainspring. If anything, the mainspring on the Lyman is a little too soft.

J.D.
 
First test the tension of the mainspring by putting the gun on a bathroom scale, and noting the weight of the gun shown on the scale. Then slowly cock the hammer back to full cock, keeping an eye on that scale. Note the maximum weight shown on the scale when you get the hammer to full cock. Repeat it three times to get an average. Now you know where you are beginning.

Yes, you have to cut coils. Remove the lock from the gun, and cock the hammer back to full cock. If it is a typical lock, the spring will stack coils, that it will compress fully, and still require more movement to reach full cock, so the coil spring will start moving sideways like a rattlesnake. All those extra coils are great to protect companies from product liability suits, but lousy on nipples, and accuracy. The first thing to do is remove enough coils to stop the stacking. Then test the spring again. note the tension by subtracting the weight of the gun from the maximum reading you get when you cock the gun to full cock. If it is more than 10 lbs. you can continue to cut coils. Most exceed 30 lbs. When you get the tension down below 20 lbs. you will begin to sweat. Everyone does the first time you do this. put the lock back in the gun put a cap on it, and fire it out in your garage, or back yard. Satisfy yourself that the spring is still going to fire the gun. You will notice how much easier it is to cock the hammer, now. take the lock back out, remove the spring and continue to remove coils. Begin testing the spring tension after each coil is cut.


I know, this is a lot of putting the gun back together again, and then taking it apart again, but its necessary. Unless you have some sohphisticated equipment to test the spring tension of light coiled srpings, this is the way it is done.

When you put the gun back together, go ahead and fire off another cap. When you get it down to 15 lbs. you may want to stop for the day, and give your nerves a day to recover. Put the gun together and clean it, and put it away for a day.

Even with the old nipple in place, you want the face of the hammer to hit the nipple evenly all the way around. Use some lipstick, or marking dye to coat the top edge of the nipple and then lower the hammer down onto it. cock the hammer back and check out the dye that has transferred to the face of the hammer. If you see a full 360 degree ring of the same width on the hammerface, the contact is correct. If not, you have a high spot, and you need to grind that down. Use a grinding bit on a dremel tool at modest speed to grind away the metal on the face of the hammer where the dye IS. The law spot is where the dye isn't! When you have removed all the dye, test it again, and repeat this process. I use a folded over piece of paper towel between the nipple and hammer, and fire the hammer. It should almost cut a punch hole in the paper. I " cured " an percussion gun I had years ago that would not fire the cap on the first hit doing this, and friends were amazed that I had stopped fussing with my caps and lock at future shoots. Most wanted to know what I had done, or had done by someone eilse to fix my piece of junk!

paul
 
As J.D. points out. The Investarms locks used on the GPR and the Trade Rifle have soft coil springs as main springs. Soft compared to those used in T/C locks.

The problem is the nipple that you are presently using. I have been down this road with both the percussion Trade Rifle and the GPR I converted over to a mule ear percussion lock.

I have a collection of nipples to fit the guns. Depending on who made the nipples you will see different angle tapers on the nipples. I have a few that you cannot push seat a cap fully onto the nipple. Others give a good fit. Others the caps are kind of loose.

Different brands of caps will behave differently in how easily they will seat fully onto a particular nipple without having to use a lot of pressure.

When I run into a nipple where I cannot easily seat a CCI cap onto I will chuck the nipple up in the electric drill and use some fine wet or dry sandpaper to alter the original taper. Giving the top of the nipple less of a taper thus giving more room for the cap to be seated without undue pressure.

I shot flinters for 25 years before buying a percussion rifle. I figured all nipples were standard except for the threaded portion. Boy was I wrong on that count. Then chuck in differences in the caps themselves.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys.

Ive sanded the nipple twice now. It works for about 10-15 shots. After that, same old story. After a dozen or so shots I do notice the top of the nipple mushrooming out, especially in the front. It seems the nipple is at to extreme an angle and the hammer is definatly not hitting it square.

I do think im gonna wait for my new nipples before I play with anything else. I got a couple of spitfires on the way, are they any good?
But if the problem persists, im definatly going to look into squaring up the hammerface to nipple relationship and possibly reducing the mainspring.

Thanks again

Boone
 
It sounds like if anything you need a stronger mainspring not weaker. But the problem is with the nipple. If it is mushrooming after only 10-15 shots you have a real soft nipple and need a new one. The Spit fire may be good. I liked the Hot Shots when i shot caplocks.
 
I always use a spitfire wnen I hunt deer with a cap lock, have had good luck with them.
 
Bad nipples on a GPR is a common problem. About the only real solution is to replace it. Reducing the outside diameter is a good temporary patch, but as you noticed, it doesn't last long. That may or may not be due to a strong mainspring, but I'd wait until you get a new nipple before you decide. If you weaken the mainspring and the real problem is a bad nipple, you will always have misfires, even on a good nipple.
 
paulvallandigham said:
If you see a full 360 degree ring of the same width on the hammerface, the contact is correct. If not, you have a high spot, and you need to grind that down. Use a grinding bit on a dremel tool at modest speed to grind away the metal on the face of the hammer where the dye IS. Tpaul


BINGO!! Did this a year ago and problem fixed.
:thumbsup:
 
Sounds like cap residue builds up on the nipple.
I have the same problem depending on the brand of caps I use.

While shooting I'll wet two fingers and wipe the top portion of the nipple to remove the cap residue that builds up on the nipple.

CCI Magnum caps have about 20% more primer composition in them. Remington Black Powder caps have about 40% more primer compound in them. More flame equals more crud build up on the nipple and more frequent wiping of the nipple to remove it.

When the cap fires a portion of the primer composition residue will deposit on the outside of the nipple. When I would have a long day of powder testing the nipple would end up looking like a big black cone.
 
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