Well I played around with my TVM fowler yesterday and still find it shooting left about 6" with balls and with shot my patterns are left about the same (fringing my 3"bull with shot, but the densest part of the pattern is always left). All shots were at 20 yards.I read the instructions for bending a barrel and just gave it a try (held my breath but didnt break anything). My question is is there an amount of bend that translates into a point of impact? I was surprised how much spring there is to a barrel, but I got about 1/16th bend to the center of the barrel. I will have to go out and shoot it again, but was curious if there is a way to estimate how much the POI moves when measured against how much bend was put in. Getting to the range and then coming home to make another adjustment might get time consuming. I hope to get this gun shooting straighter, as I had a tough time wingshooting with it last year. It would be nice to know its dead on when hunting.
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Regulating a barrel
- Thread starter J.M.
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There is no formula for "degrees of bend" when you're bending a barrel. Every barrel is an individual. All you can do it try it again. I've bent barrels that had be bend four times, and the forth time was to bend it back a "hair." Le Grand
paulvallandigham
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Before I would ever bend a barrel, I would take a good look at the muzzle to see if it is square to the bore. If not file the muzzle down to make it square. In the old days, shotguns, even doubles, were " regulated " by filing one side or another to change when the shot and wads were released at the muzzle, moving the shot in the opposite direction. when you look at old, original guns in gun racks, you will often see this uneven muzzle shape, which the uninformed think is just wear. Whether filing, or bending, it is all trial and error work, done usually at the range at a bench.
As far as I can tell the crown/muzzle seems fine, it looks concentric to me. I just find that the gun consistently shoots left no matter what combinations of shot, wads powder etc I have tried. I let a friend shoot acouple of shots with it and they went left too, so as far as I can tell I need to move the POI to the right. I love hunting with it but I need to dial it in so I dont have the same results as last year, which were too inconsistent for my liking.
DrTimboone
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:bow: Paul, Approximately how much would you have to shorten the left side of J.M.'s muzzle to correct his error do you reckon???
I am just getting ready to sight in my new fowler so suddenly this type of talk has become interesting..especially since the front site is soldered on the barrel!!! :hmm:
I am just getting ready to sight in my new fowler so suddenly this type of talk has become interesting..especially since the front site is soldered on the barrel!!! :hmm:
here is an aproximate fix.. id bend the barrel 1/3 the amount it is off, move the front sight 1/3 the amount it is off, and shape the stock so it moves your eye over for one third of the amount it is off if it is shooting to the left.. you would have to add to the stock if you want to move the impact to the left.. dont do anything until your absolutly sure of what your doing, and what is going on with your gun.. .. you need to develop good loads and find the rear comb height etc.. if you make a cardboard rear sight with a knotch and tape it on to where you get it to shoot on you will know exactly what it has to be moved... something just doesnt seem right here... you should be able to look down the barrel and have the ball shoot fairly close to eye line of sight (left and right)at 20 yards.. first you need to find out what is wrong.. this is hard to do when you dont know what is going on.. have patience, and figure it out with some help on the gunbuilders forum at this site... every once in a while the rear of the bore isnt on center, but the builder should have put it down not to the side.. youl get it and have a fine gun when your done IF you dont ruin it in the process.. dave
paulvallandigham
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Dr. Boone: I would file a few strokes off the left side of the barrel, and then test fire it, to see how much it moved to the right. Then file some more. If the shot and wad leaves the left side of the barrel, the escaping gas will push it to the right. The same reverse principal applies to up and down, or any direction around the clock. Obviously if it has to to to the left, its hard to file the part of the barrel that joins the second barrel in a double barrel gun. But, I have seen guns at Friendship in the used gun racks that are filed that way, too! Not many but a couple over the years. I am always looking for a good deal( isn't everyone?) when I scout the commercial rows.
this is a trial and see kind of thing, and I don't know that you can come up with a recommended reduction for every gauge, or load. Pick a load that throws the best pattern in that barrel, and then move it to POA, or wherever you what it to impact. I am an old trapshooter, so I am much used to holding under a target, and having the pattern rise above my point of aim. I tend to stock my field guns to do the same thing. Other shooters are very comfortable to having the groups hit dead center on their POA. Pick your poison.
this is a trial and see kind of thing, and I don't know that you can come up with a recommended reduction for every gauge, or load. Pick a load that throws the best pattern in that barrel, and then move it to POA, or wherever you what it to impact. I am an old trapshooter, so I am much used to holding under a target, and having the pattern rise above my point of aim. I tend to stock my field guns to do the same thing. Other shooters are very comfortable to having the groups hit dead center on their POA. Pick your poison.
Well, heres an update. I took the gun out today and shot the same loads as last time. I'm happy to say I did indeed move the impact over between the barrel bend and then filing on the site its pretty well centered. When I tried a few round balls, it also looked like I moved the impact with them too, maybe a shade more than necessary, but still a big improvement. The only other thing I think would help would be to smooth out the trigger, it takes a lot of pressure to set it off. I might post a question on how to do that since I've never messed with that either. Man this thing is sure a learning experience!
paulvallandigham
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JM: Take the lock out of the stock and check the sear engagement in the tumbler. The full cock notch should be parallel or "wedded " to the face of the sear bar, and both surfaces should be polished as smooth as glass. If the trigger pull is still hard, you will need to take the lock apart to find out what, if anyhthing is binding. Remove the mainspring, and then remove the sear return spring. The tumber, to which the cock is attached by a screw on the outside of the lock, should rotate smoothly. If it doesn't you will have to take the cock off the tumbler and remove it so you can polish the surfaces. ;Remove the bridle screw(s) and the sear pivot screw, and test each part independently. They should rotate on their pivots freely, without rubbing against the lock plate, or against anything else. As each part is checked, put it back in the gun, reconstructing the lock. Oil all the surfaces that do have to rub together, like the horn on the front of the tumber that the mainspring hook bears down on. That arc has to be very smooth, as should be the tip of that mainsrping hook that contacts it. That Horn actually accelerates the speed of the cock as it falls to provide maximum powder to drive the edge of the flint into the face of the frizzen. Most trigger pulls are improved with nothing more than polishing to two engaging surfaces, the full cock notch, and the nose of the sear that goes into the notch. If you lock as a " fly " in it to allow the cock to pass of the half cock notch, Don't lose it. This is the tiniest piece in the lock and gets its name because it seems to grow wings and fly away in your workroom if you aren't prepared to trap and remove it purposefully, and place it someplace safe. ( Use a peanut butter jar, if you have one.) Just remember where you put it so you can put it back in the lock as you rebuild it.
If the trigger pull is not improved to your liking doing this polishing, then something else is needed. What that will be depends on your lock, and, since you don't tell me what kind of lock they put in the gun, I will not guess here. Sometimes the notch in the tumbler is too deep, and you need to weld or silver solder a piece of metal in the notch to keep the sear nose from going into the notch so deep. That will often improve the trigger pull satisfactorarily.
Sometimes, it will be the mainspring that is so powerful that it is putting way too much pressure on the tumbler and causing the sear to be difficult to disengage. The tension of that spring can be reduced and cure that cause of a bad trigger pull. Finally, sometimes the trigger is mounted wrong in the gun, and is hitting the sear bar at the wrong place on the trigger, depriving you of the natural leverage that should make the tirgger easy to move. If that is the problem, there are several ways to deal with it, again depending on the way the gun was built.
So, if you get to that point, you are going to have to find someone you trust to look at the lock and gun, and give you some suggestions on what is the best way to approach the problem, and cure it to your satisfaction.
Wish it were more simple, but its not always.
Paul
If the trigger pull is not improved to your liking doing this polishing, then something else is needed. What that will be depends on your lock, and, since you don't tell me what kind of lock they put in the gun, I will not guess here. Sometimes the notch in the tumbler is too deep, and you need to weld or silver solder a piece of metal in the notch to keep the sear nose from going into the notch so deep. That will often improve the trigger pull satisfactorarily.
Sometimes, it will be the mainspring that is so powerful that it is putting way too much pressure on the tumbler and causing the sear to be difficult to disengage. The tension of that spring can be reduced and cure that cause of a bad trigger pull. Finally, sometimes the trigger is mounted wrong in the gun, and is hitting the sear bar at the wrong place on the trigger, depriving you of the natural leverage that should make the tirgger easy to move. If that is the problem, there are several ways to deal with it, again depending on the way the gun was built.
So, if you get to that point, you are going to have to find someone you trust to look at the lock and gun, and give you some suggestions on what is the best way to approach the problem, and cure it to your satisfaction.
Wish it were more simple, but its not always.
Paul
