Relative strength between percussion models

[45D]

All this sure makes the Remington design sound good to me!

Yeah, well we'll see if the Remington platform can keep up with the "correct" open-top platform. As a famous line in a movie states - "I have two guns, one for each of ya" ! Lol

Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

All this sure makes the Remington design sound good to me!

These are issues with improperly made repros of Colt designs, not when they are made or corrected properly

Ironically, Pietta finally got it right while the more expensive and "prettier" Uberti chooses to keep making the arbors short. I admittedly beat the heck out of my Pietta cheapies and they've taken it with no problems . 60 rounds of Pyrodex, through a box stock Pietta .44 Navy, no wiping , no cleaning . My Uberti Remington cannot do this

Remington repros are not without off-center cylinder pins, binding after 2 cylinders, bent hands, off center chambers etc etc but when made properly, are also very nice guns. I own both and enjoy both . I just shoot the Colts way more.

I own exactly 1 1858 Remington because it will look pretty in my rig with Bonded Ivory grips , but this 2nd Gen Dragoon is superior in every way

 

[TrapperDude]

These are issues with improperly made repros of Colt designs, not when they are made or corrected properly

Ironically, Pietta finally got it right while the more expensive and "prettier" Uberti chooses to keep making the arbors short. I admittedly beat the heck out of my Pietta cheapies and they've taken it with no problems . 60 rounds of Pyrodex, through a box stock Pietta .44 Navy, no wiping , no cleaning . My Uberti Remington cannot do this

Remington repros are not without off-center cylinder pins, binding after 2 cylinders, bent hands, off center chambers etc etc but when made properly, are also very nice guns. I own both and enjoy both . I just shoot the Colts way more.

I own exactly 1 1858 Remington because it will look pretty in my rig with Bonded Ivory grips , but this 2nd Gen Dragoon is superior in every way

Is that the stainless Remington? That's the one I have.

 

[Stantheman86]

Is that the stainless Remington? That's the one I have.

It is the stainless Uberti , I waited over a year for one to come in.
I popped 6 CCI #11 caps with it today just to function test .

It feels like it "needs" Bonded Ivory grips, to my eye.

 

[TrapperDude]

It is the stainless Uberti , I waited over a year for one to come in.
I popped 6 CCI #11 caps with it today just to function test .

It feels like it "needs" Bonded Ivory grips, to my eye.

I found mine at Impact Guns back in 2019. I just managed to get it before supplies started to dwindle.

 

[M. De Land]

If you'll look at a very recently "locked" thread, you'll find the answer. Everyone ( at this point) knows I don't (and haven't for 20yrs) shoot bp. But what I DO shoot with these platforms gives me the ability to test not only the "durability" of design but the "strength" of design as well. Since max bp charges won't overload the revolver, max loads are just that. That makes the arbor correction for open top revolvers important for durability. On the other hand, it would be very easy to overload . . . pretty much any revolver with the type components I use . Therefore, I have the ability to use "known" pressures as a test for strength of design . . . along with which manufacturers revolvers "hold up" best over time / number of shots fired and so on. This should shed some light on the importance of "what I shoot" as far as a test for the platforms we enjoy and discuss on these forums.
After all, what's good for the "unmentionable" stuff is "Overkill " for the "smoky stuff" !!! Lol

Mike

I'm curious, was the picture you posted of the failed arbor end some time back the result of firing a smokeless cartridge in a convertible cylinder ? I"ve never seen one fail with black powder.

 

[45D]

I'm curious, was the picture you posted of the failed arbor end some time back the result of firing a smokeless cartridge in a convertible cylinder ? I"ve never seen one fail with black powder.

Hey, I pilfered , lifted . . . I mean "copied" that photo from a post on another forum. I'm pretty sure it was the end of a Walker arbor and it was with bp. I've not had that happen to any of my revolvers personally but I've heard of it happening. In a discussion about this topic someone posted the pic and I thought that may be the one chance I get to see that so I "snagged" it!!
I was going to let you know, in my "fitting the arbor" post above, I point out the first point of contact is the butt joint where the frame/ barrel lug meet and at that time you start zeroing in on the endshake/clearance you want ( you're typically around .003" to .004" from it). By the time you get to your specific number, the butt joint has much more tension on it with wedge installed. That means the pins have tension, the arbor/barrel connection is "fixed" as well as the tension applied to the end of the arbor.
At that point, your bore "attitude" will be what it is whether it's slightly + , - , or perfect . . . the point is, it will be maintained so you can "zero" in or "sight in" the revolver. It may or may not ( but typically does) improve accuracy but again, the main accomplishment is the stability of structure and removal of self destructive actions which only get worse, not better.
Just FYI and everyone else reading this.

From that point on, every time you pick that revolver up, it will be the same each and every time you pick it up.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

All this sure makes the Remington design sound good to me!

It is good and is the reason ( as pressures climbed from smokeless use )all subsequent single action designs pretty much copy it. Still though, for straight black powder use the open frame guns have the fouling advantage. If I were restricted to percussion revolvers I'd choose the 58 Rem for target work and the 60 Colt for a street fight!

 

[M. De Land]

Hey, I pilfered , lifted . . . I mean "copied" that photo from a post on another forum. I'm pretty sure it was the end of a Walker arbor and it was with bp. I've not had that happen to any of my revolvers personally but I've heard of it happening. In a discussion about this topic someone posted the pic and I thought that may be the one chance I get to see that so I "snagged" it!!
I was going to let you know, in my "fitting the arbor" post above, I point out the first point of contact is the butt joint where the frame/ barrel lug meet and at that time you start zeroing in on the endshake/clearance you want ( you're typically around .003" to .004" from it). By the time you get to your specific number, the butt joint has much more tension on it with wedge installed. That means the pins have tension, the arbor/barrel connection is "fixed" as well as the tension applied to the end of the arbor.
At that point, your bore "attitude" will be what it is whether it's slightly + , - , or perfect . . . the point is, it will be maintained so you can "zero" in or "sight in" the revolver. It may or may not ( but typically does) improve accuracy but again, the main accomplishment is the stability of structure and removal of self destructive actions which only get worse, not better.
Just FYI and everyone else reading this.

From that point on, every time you pick that revolver up, it will be the same each and every time you pick it up.

Mike

A very practical Man !

 

[SPQR70AD]

These are issues with improperly made repros of Colt designs, not when they are made or corrected properly

Ironically, Pietta finally got it right while the more expensive and "prettier" Uberti chooses to keep making the arbors short. I admittedly beat the heck out of my Pietta cheapies and they've taken it with no problems . 60 rounds of Pyrodex, through a box stock Pietta .44 Navy, no wiping , no cleaning . My Uberti Remington cannot do this

Remington repros are not without off-center cylinder pins, binding after 2 cylinders, bent hands, off center chambers etc etc but when made properly, are also very nice guns. I own both and enjoy both . I just shoot the Colts way more.

I own exactly 1 1858 Remington because it will look pretty in my rig with Bonded Ivory grips , but this 2nd Gen Dragoon is superior in every way

I have shot 1858's until I got tired of loading them never had one bind up. used crisco over the ball. never had a cap jam which is a big problem with colts. there is an industry built up just for "fixing" colts. not many working on remingtons

 

[45D]

I have shot 1858's until I got tired of loading them never had one bind up. used crisco over the ball. never had a cap jam which is a big problem with colts. there is an industry built up just for "fixing" colts. not many working on remingtons

Well I tell ya what!! I have almost as many Remingtons come through the shop as I do Colt open tops!!! Lol!!
I don't know how long it takes for you to get tired of loading them but most folks get to cylinder 3 and it's time to "pull the pin"!!! Unless you're loading "off the gun", you're just lucky!! I've had competition cowboy shooters shoot 160 rounds per Colt o.t. revolver over a 3 day competition with nothing more than an exterior wipe down.

I can make the Remington platform do the same thing. With an action conversion to coil torsion Springs, action stop, bolt block and "proprietary adjustments" (makes um a 19th century Ruger!!)!! In fact, several state championships have been won with my Remingtons. So, the "industry" for a "proper" ( or Gentlemens ) Remington revolver is as wide open as it is for Colts . . . there's just not many that know what/how to do it.

Mike

 

[SPQR70AD]

Well I tell ya what!! I have almost as many Remingtons come through the shop as I do Colt open tops!!! Lol!!
I don't know how long it takes for you to get tired of loading them but most folks get to cylinder 3 and it's time to "pull the pin"!!! Unless you're loading "off the gun", you're just lucky!! I've had competition cowboy shooters shoot 160 rounds per Colt o.t. revolver over a 3 day competition with nothing more than an exterior wipe down.

I can make the Remington platform do the same thing. With an action conversion to coil torsion Springs, action stop, bolt block and "proprietary adjustments" (makes um a 19th century Ruger!!)!! In fact, several state championships have been won with my Remingtons. So, the "industry" for a "proper" ( or Gentlemens ) Remington revolver is as wide open as it is for Colts . . . there's just not many that know what/how to do it.

Mike

most guys have something against using crisco and come up with all sorts of concoctions. I think that is their problem. I have shot 70-80 times and the cylinder rotates the same never had it bind. I never used BP always used pyrodex maybe that is why. on this forum 99.9% of problems are with the colts. you must do good work but it seems your work on Remingtons is for guys shooting in matches which is a testament to your work but not needed by the average guy

 

[45D]

most guys have something against using crisco and come up with all sorts of concoctions. I think that is their problem. I have shot 70-80 times and the cylinder rotates the same never had it bind. I never used BP always used pyrodex maybe that is why. on this forum 99.9% of problems are with the colts. you must do good work but it seems your work on Remingtons is for guys shooting in matches which is a testament to your work but not needed by the average guy

Well thanks for the compliment but on all 3 platforms, my mission is to make "bullet proof" examples (the platforms being Colt open tops, Remington top strap and ROA's). Across the board (all 3 platforms) probably 1/3 of them are for competition. The rest are for folks that just want "top performance" from the particular revolver. In other words, the difference between "functioning" and "perfect performance". I mentioned just recently in one of these threads about the folks who would rather have a worthy addition to their collection rather than a "throw away". You know, at one time the USFA revolvers were "high finish" Uberti's . . .

Mike