Remington Navy-two powders, two groups.

[Rat]

Comments, observations? Shooting 24 grains of fffg under a ball, with wax wad, group is strung vertically.

24 grains of ffffg, again with wax wad, I got a round group. The ffffg was noticeably "hotter", but not substantially so. With either load, that .36 is one soft recoiling pistola.

Vertical string is less with the rounded, or ffffg group, than with the strung or fffg group, by about 1/2" inch, or a bit less.

On the rounded group, or fffg group, the high left shot was a called flyer, but another shot touched off normally went the same distance high.

My observations are that even though the fffg group looks tighter at first glance, the ffffg group is actually very slightly smaller, not considering the difference in horizontal dispersion.

Generally, a rounded group is preferred over a tighter, but "strung" group, in pistol shooting. Stringing usually indicates a bad hold, or some other variable. I shot both groups with the same hold, from the same position.

Any comments regarding the use of ffffg should be addressed to: Mr.Brit, esq.

 

[Rat]

Ooops, hit the "full image" button twice. Sorry.

 

[SDSmlf]

Repeat test a few more times to confirm you have found the guns load. Some will have their hair catch on fire because you used ffff and broke the ‘rule’, but I’d go with whatever you find shoots better.

 

[hawkeye2]

Gosh don't you know that using 4f will turn that gun into a hand grenade and probably the only part of you they will ever find will be your shoes?

Here we go again with that 4f controversy. If it works for you I say go with it.

Have you tried other loads? I haven't shot a .36 in years but I got my best groups with about 18 grains of 3f. It's nice to see the difference between 3 and 4f with all other things being equal.

 

[bang]

What size ball are you shooting?
I found .380 tends to work better for me. I believe it's because when it's rammed there is more bearing surface contacting the bore. Same with my 44s. I use a bench loader and use .457. .380 should ram easy enough with pistols ram.

 

[Rat]

Any controversy will be forwarded to Brit.

Yes, I found the difference in groups of ffffg vs. fffg to be very interesting. Again, you could tell it had some more ooomph, but really not that much.

Haven't tried other loads lately. I found a long time ago that using a .38spl case for a measure, for the slug, and then a .357 case, for a measure, for the ball, worked good. Today I used the .38 case, (which throws 24 grains) since the wax wad is quite thick, that put the ball right where I wanted it, in the cylinder.

I think this pistol is actually most accurate with ffg Swiss, but I will have to re-visit that to confirm.

Using a .375" ball, .380" would probably be more better, but that's my mold size, plus I have quite a supply of Hornady .375" balls. Also have a slug mold, but the slug is noticeably less accurate than the ball.

Thanks.

 

[hawkeye2]

I have always felt that an oversize ball would give more positive engagement with the rifling because of the flat belt on the ball even thought the chamber would determine its loaded diameter. Like you my mold is .375 and all the balls I ever purchased were too so I never had a chance to test it but I do have the chambers on my .44's reamed to .456" and shoot a .457" ball with a forcing cone mod. I expect Swiss will give better results and I intend to try some in the spring. I've always had so much GOEX on hand it discouraged me from buying another brand. Was it you that posted sometime back (couple of years maybe) about trying 2f in a Remington with very good results?

 

[Rat]

It could be. ffg Swiss is what I used to use, but as my Swiss supply began to run low I've been using Goex more. I think the quality of Goex has improved, and I have a decent supply of Goex fffg and have been using that in my pistols and .58" rifles. My Swiss is getting low, so I only use it in my Jeager these days. Nothing but the best for Rosie. One of these days I'll probably bite the bullet and get another large order of Swiss, but man that stuff has become expensive.

 

[Pete G]

You probably need to shoot about 10 targets with each load to get any significant comparison.

 

[jdw276]

It could be. ffg Swiss is what I used to use, but as my Swiss supply began to run low I've been using Goex more. I think the quality of Goex has improved, and I have a decent supply of Goex fffg and have been using that in my pistols and .58" rifles. My Swiss is getting low, so I only use it in my Jeager these days. Nothing but the best for Rosie. One of these days I'll probably bite the bullet and get another large order of Swiss, but man that stuff has become expensive.

Agree, swiss is expensive. Might try ole eyensforth. My rifles seem to like it and does not seem to leave as much in the barrel. Plus price is reasonable more so than swiss. But i do like swiss.......

 

[Rat]

You probably need to shoot about 10 targets with each load to get any significant comparison.

Truth. However, it did feel like my position was the same for each group, and for both groups I felt like I was "on" as far as trigger control, breathing, hold, pace, etc. It did cross my mind though, that firing two more groups could possibly reverse the results. But, I "think" it was the load, and not me. Yes, you are absolutely right.

 

[Rat]

Repeat test a few more times to confirm you have found the guns load. Some will have their hair catch on fire because you used ffff and broke the ‘rule’, but I’d go with whatever you find shoots better.

Again, Brit will be the front man, the PR guy, the whipping boy, for any and all negative responses or comments on the use of a certain un-named propellant. I'm sure he would not volunteer for such a responsibility, but I am in possession of a can of the above un-mentioned propellant, which has an explicit warning as to it's use other than priming. He will be blackmailed if he refuses the post, and another post of that can will be posted should he refuse.

 

[Eutycus]

I intend to reread this whole thread along with several others on the topic of paper bullets. I'm new at C+B revolvers and even newer at paper cartridges but I figured that's the route to go. So new in fact ,I've never made any ...yet. I see different papers mentioned such as tea bags and hair styling papers. Would old, used and cleaned coffee filters work? Due to my coffee habit these paper filters accumulate fairly quickly. And is "nitrating" the papers really necessary? I will be looking forward to any help from someone more experienced in this field, thank you.

 

[Eutycus]

Oh I forgot to mention that I intend to try it with "roundies" instead of conicals as that is what I have on hand. Some people use a cardboard wad between the powder and the bullet. Would felt wads work or is that an uncalled for + unneeded step?

 

[Rat]

Some do use coffee filter papers.

Nitrating is not required, but adds some extra insurance I'm sure.

I think what works best, is a bullet designed with a rebated base, to wrap the paper around. But I wouldn't hesitate to experiment with round balls. My Remington Navy is certainly more accurate with round balls.

A wad would take up some powder space, and the paper cartridges don't hold a lot of powder to begin with. A lubed wad would not be good for the powder, and could eventually compromise the paper.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thank goodness for that. Congrats on your reckless exercise sir.
Oh don't worry about blaming, flaming me. I have been married to the same woman for more than thirty years so I'm good for it!
Remember to count your fingers before you retire for the evening! Don't leave any for the crows!

 

[Britsmoothy]

Joking aside could you squeeze another grain or two in? It may just rid that vertical sting with the 3f!

 

[Rat]

Yes, it will easily take 26 or perhaps a bit more. At 24 grains the ball is well below the chamber mouth. It is loaded with 26 grains right now, but haven't had a chance to shoot it. (or am too lazy to clean it at the moment)

Usually, normally, or before, a .357 case of powder and wonder wad would would seat the ball with room to spare, but the wax wads don't compress as much, compared to a felt wad. Which is okay, one powder charge will work with both ball and slug, although I really don't shoot the slug much as it is less accurate.

 

[ugly old guy]

Many years ago, (before the last Dupont black powder plant burned and went "Boom".) I had the best accuracy in my (reproduction) "Remington 1858 New Army'" .44 caliber and (reproduction) "Colt 1851 Navy" .36 caliber using FFg Dupont powder. Dupont FFFg wasn't as accurate. I never tried FFFFg priming powder.

If memory serves, the "Remington" liked "35 grains", the "Colt" "30 grains".
Powder charges were from a brass CVA adjustable powder measure.

I never actually weighed a charge for any of my rifles, pistols, or revolvers.

I used uncooked Malt-O-Meal or Cream of Wheat over the ball to seal the chambers. Both are inflamable.
The uncooked cereal helped scrub any fowling from the previous shot from the barrel, too.
I didn't use an over powder wad.

 

[toot]

what held the COW in the cylinder? gravity? why don't it fall out with nothing between the cylinder & barrel? I could see a dab of grease, BORE BUTTER or old tried & true CRISCO, being used.