Remington New Model Army With Shotgun Primers

[Davi]

Yesterday I completed my muzzle loading instruction at my gun club. The guy doing our instruction had a Remington 1858 New model army in stainless that used percussion caps but a member of the club let us also use his which was the same gun but with nipples that accepted shotgun primers. I'm having trouble finding any information on using/modifying the gun to use shotgun primers so was hoping someone may be able to point me in the right direction of what I need to search for.

I've found mention of some nipples which have a cap that slides over the top of the cup once the primer is inserted but his didn't have this and was literally just a cup. He also said he could change back to percussion caps if he wanted so don't think it was any kind of permanent change and it was using black powder, not smokeless.

To be honest, I'm having trouble finding anything about modifying/personalising the gun. I know the one with the percussion caps had hogue grips rather than wood but even finding those seems to be difficult.

 

[64Springer]

Do you mean #209 shotgun primers?

I took a quick look at my capnballers years ago to see if a 209 could be adapted. The answer wasn't an immediate no.

I'm sure with enough engineering and machining it would work. The biggie would be outfitting the hammer with a firing pin.

Pedersoli makes a gimmicky 209 device for percussion guns, but they're more trouble than they're worth. Gotta dig the spent primer out with a knife or something. Much easier and faster to slap on another #11 primer.

 

[Davi]

Do you mean #209 shotgun primers?

I took a quick look at my capnballers years ago to see if a 209 could be adapted.

The answer wasn't an immediate no.

I'm sure with enough engineering and machining it would work.

The biggie would be in the introduction of a firing pin in the hammer.

Sorry, yes 209 primers.

I have found a post where someone mentioned having a modified hammer, or nipples with built in firing pins but I don't believe the one I fired had either of these. The guy mentioned that he could change the nipples back if needed if there were no shotgun primers available at the club shop which makes me think there was no modification to the hammer and from firing it, I know there was no 'lid' that went over the 209 primer

 

[hawkeye2]

Once upon a time folks used to reload shotgun battery cup primers. The battery cup itself was salvaged and a new primer was loaded into that. The anvil and battery cup were reused. I don't know if the primers are available today but if they are it's possible that is what he is using. The 209 primer is the complete assembly including the battery cup.

 

[ZUG]

Once upon a time folks used to reload shotgun battery cup primers. The battery cup itself was salvaged and a new primer was loaded into that. The anvil and battery cup were reused. I don't know if the primers are available today but if they are it's possible that is what he is using. The 209 primer is the complete assembly including the battery cup.

You're showing your age there hawkeye2 --- Alcan sold the battery cups so that you could replace just the battery cup of a 209 shot shell primer (and other size shotgun shell primers also) back in the 50's and early 6o's.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/988779214
here are some 209 nipples for a ROA. I haven't ever seen any offered for a '58, but it appears options are out there.

 

[Davi]

After having a look, I think you may be correct. I was sure he had said it was the same gun apart from the grips but I remember he took it out of a grey plastic box which matches the images for the ROA I’ve just seen.
Also, these look to be the exact primer cups that were in the cylinder.

http://anvilconversions.co.uk/index_files/Page13768.htm

 

[BBGun]

Sorry, yes 209 primers.

I have found a post where someone mentioned having a modified hammer, or nipples with built in firing pins but I don't believe the one I fired had either of these. The guy mentioned that he could change the nipples back if needed if there were no shotgun primers available at the club shop which makes me think there was no modification to the hammer and from firing it, I know there was no 'lid' that went over the 209 primer

This probable isn't what he had although it might could be fitted to the gun and made to work. Davide Pedersoli #209 Primer Nipple Conversion Kit I have one of these on a screw barrel Liegi .44 Derringer, and it works good. If you find out what it actually is please share, I would be interested in knowing what it was myself. thanks

 

[Britsmoothy]

Once upon a time folks used to reload shotgun battery cup primers. The battery cup itself was salvaged and a new primer was loaded into that. The anvil and battery cup were reused. I don't know if the primers are available today but if they are it's possible that is what he is using. The 209 primer is the complete assembly including the battery cup.

I have some of them, they make strong percussion caps, for early starts on damp mornings

 

[45man]

Ya fellas know that sometimes too much ignition pressure is no good for accuracy.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sounds like an unnecessary and possibly dangerous idea to me. The question is: Why?

 

[Davi]

Sounds like an unnecessary and possibly dangerous idea to me. The question is: Why?

Cheaper and easier to load, especially for my dad with carpal tunnel

 

[64Springer]

Those 209 primers swell up like crazy when popped.

Haven't seen an application yet that didn't require prying them out with a knife blade or some other sharp instrument.

Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

 

[Davi]

Those 209 primers swell up like crazy when popped.

Haven't seen an application yet that didn't require prying them out with a knife blade or some other sharp instrument.

Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

On Sunday we just used a straightened paperclip to gently push them out. Absolutely no issues whatsoever.