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Rendezvous era Black Powder

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dwr

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Greetings,

I am building a Rendezvous era fur trappers winter cabin in the back of my property across the creek and in the woods.

I am sparsely furnishing it with period correct (or reproduction) items.

The thing to give me ponder is black powder containers. Checking my many references,journals, etc. I cannot nail down exactly how powder was sold at Rendezvous. Was it poured out of a large keg into canvas sacks by the pound? Was it sold by pre determined weight in wooden kegs from St Louie? Or what?

Educate me, please and thanks!
 
Superb question.

While responding to his question, if powder was dispensed from large kegs, please also describe how unsealed powder was kept dry during the following year's trapping.

The Voyage of Discovery had powder sealed in specially fabricated sheet lead containers. When container became empty of powder, the container became round balls. I doubt that trappers had such an advantageous storage system.
 
Great question.....And you sooooooooo! have to show us pictures of you cabin......

Anyway....I seem to remember reading About mountain men/ explores making caches of such supplies....
 
I don't have any historic documenataion for this but I would guess the most common way of storing black powder prior to the late 1800's would be a wooden barrel or cask with a wood/cork bung to seal it.

Screw top containers didn't come along until the 1890's so that rules them out.
Glass containers are too easily broken.
Paper and other flimsy containers would not have been durable enough or water proof.

Leather bags are a possibility but they are not water proof.
 
Zonie said:
I don't have any historic documenataion for this but I would guess the most common way of storing black powder prior to the late 1800's would be a wooden barrel or cask with a wood/cork bung to seal it.







Spence
 
on the RMFT era trade lists from 1825-1837 there are only a few references to BP being shipped the containers listed were: Kegs, containers, and bags (up to 63 pounds in the bags).
As for how it was dispensed I have yet to find any references and considering most trappers worked for companies who formed large brigades. The brigades carried larger quantities for re-supply (for instance when the Crow stole all the goods of one brigade, the trappers left the are to meet up with another brigade for a complete re-most likely had their horns filled (and perhaps a couple of extras) at the main camp since most only were away from the main camp a day or two while trapping.
As for the containers being water resistant, some at least weren't since there are several period references to having to dry wet powder. IIRC Zeb Pike mentions this once and also notes they did have a few glass bottles of powder that had stayed dry.
 
Someone recently posted an account of where a storekeeper dispensed some powder from a keg (barrel) onto paper on the table for a customer and as he was getting ready to wrap it up, some yoyo saddled up to the counter and lit a cigar blowing them all into eternity. I'm fairly certain though that the time frame was later than yours but we do know the FIW and RW eras had kegs of powder too.
 
A common way to transport and dispense black powder during the fur-trapping days (1801-1823) was to put the powder into lead casks. Once the powder was used up, the cask could be melted into balls. Lead casks were sealed with pine-pitch or bee's wax. This is what Louis & Clark used and was in vogue during the Bent's Fort frontier days. A typical black powder lead cask was either 5 or 10 pounds. The lead would comprise an equal amount by weight.
 
Very interesting replies.
I had read many moons ago about the lead cask thing, but forgot about it, that happens to us old timers.

Perhaps Fontenelle had a sight outside his tent "Powderhorns filled $1.00" :grin:

I would think to cache it, it would almost have to be in a wooden keg. I always wonder how many cache's lie out there today, undiscovered.....

Clyde, here are some pics of my current cabin, which I enjoy very much and and am very thankful to the Great Spirit for, complete with electric and bottled propane heat/hotplate. It would mimick an upscale Northern woods/Canadian trappers hangout (minus the utilities). There is also one pic of the old man at a Rendezvous a couple years ago. They call me Dryballer....I'm sure I don't have to explain that one.

The Rendezvous era trappers won't quit calling me, however. I guess reading all the books and journals and watching Jeremiah Johnson and The Mountain Men about 100 times each has something to do with it.
I have a wooded spot picked out about 100 yards downstream that I think I can squeeze my smaller tractor in and box blade out a small level pad and begin a small pure log cabin there. I can stack logs and even do the door,window, and even the roof, but I know I am not man enough to build even a small rock fireplace. I'll have to find me a skilled mason for that.

Okay...obviously I'm not knowledgeable enough to load the pics. I belong to a couple of other forums where I can load pics all day with one click direct from my computer, but not on this forum. I will have a whole houseful of computer nerds over for Thanksgiving, maybe they can help me. Thanks everyone for the replies.
 
I really look forward to those photos.

Sorry I can't recall the source(s) but I've heard of powder kept in wooden kegs on board sailing ships. The kegs were stored in a protected area below decks and powder would be brought to the guns in cloth sacks as needed. I assume if wooden kegs worked on the ocean they would work transporting over land.

Dang! Now I'm wondering if that old memory is correct. :confused:

Jeff
 
I've never read of the MM using the lead box, or shipping led boxes west. However 'cask' or 'barrel' could have been used to mean such a thing. How about a keg with a waxed on lid, maybe wedged tight??? They do record bars of lead, why if they were selling lead cask? A two gallon barrel would hold 16 lbs of powder. I would worry that a greased bag in warm weather could spoil the powder :idunno:
 
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Okay...finally figured it out. Even a blind sow finds an acorn now and then.

Hope you guys enjoy the pics. Will try to take pics of the small woods log shack in build progress starting early next spring.
 
I think the first, and only time using a lead cask to store powder in so the powder stayed dry and the lead could be used to cast balls from was when Louis & Clark used them for their journey West.

Reading the unabridged copy of their venture gave me the feeling that this lead cask idea was a unique idea.

Although this all happened long before the Mountain Men came along, I haven't read a single thing about them (or anyone else) using this method to transport or store black powder.

Of course, there's a lot of stuff I have never read. :grin:
 
The lead cask was a Meriwether Lewis innovation for the Corps of Discovery. The plan was that the lead cask would hold the correct amount of powder to shoot the lead holding it.

I am not aware of any other group of people that used the lead casks.
 
BullRunBear said:
I really look forward to those photos.

Sorry I can't recall the source(s) but I've heard of powder kept in wooden kegs on board sailing ships. The kegs were stored in a protected area below decks and powder would be brought to the guns in cloth sacks as needed. I assume if wooden kegs worked on the ocean they would work transporting over land.

Dang! Now I'm wondering if that old memory is correct. :confused:

Jeff

Jeff,

You are correct the primary way to store gun powder aboard ships was in wooden casks.

To be more specific on the cloth sacks aboard ship, though, powder was measured for the ship's guns and sewn into cloth bags at the quantity of one shot per powder bag - at least on war ships and often on merchant ships when they were in dangerous waters. These powder bags were then brought to the guns when needed for combat, normally by boys who came to be known as Powder Monkeys. The amount of these powder bag cartridges was up to the Captain, but they were always safely stored in the or one of the powder magazines aboard the ship.

Now, I'm sure not all merchant ships did that all the time, though. When not in dangerous waters, they probably did bring powder to the guns in cloth bags or wooden buckets.

Gus
 
Mountainy Man I just LOVE your cabin :bow: . It looks so peaceful & confortable :) . I can just imagin sitting in a rocking chair on the porch with a beverage & pipe overlooking the woods with my dog laying beside the rocker :wink: !
 
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