Renegade for elk hunting

[harleysboss]

The No Excuses are a good alternative if you don't cast your own. That 420 grn would be about right for your twist. Check out his web site. I'm pretty sure you can get a size sampling pack so you know what best fits your particular bore. One thing to also consider is the type of bullet lube that you use. It really makes a world of difference, To hard of a lube can result in larger groups. I've had great luck with a lube that Idaholewis spoke of. Did you ever try the bullets that I sent to you? They were lubed with said formula. If your rifle didn't shoot those into a 2" or smaller group?? There's something wrong. The only other thing that I could think of is the condition of your bore. Maybe you have to do a deep cleaning to remove a lead build up? Keep after it and you'll find the right combo.

 

[harleysboss]

I was gifted a 54 cal TC Renegade last year. The previous owner had no real experience in proper cleaning and the bore was frosted pretty badly. I spent a good amount of time polishing that barrel to get it back to a reasonable shooting condition. I wanted to try a short conical in the 1-48 twist. I ended up finding what I was after at Bullshop bullets out of Montana. They came lubed and sized to what I asked for. My first shooting session was less than spectacular to say the least. 4-5 " at 50 yards. Not good enough! The bullets were very hard to load and the lube was a bit stiff for my liking. I had a size die made up that was just barley over bore diameter ( like .5405). I ran a few test bullets and they were now sized right. I changed out the lube to the Lewis mixture and back to the range. Results put a smile on my face. 3 shots under 2". The thing that I learned is size does matter and the lube does too.

 

[morehops52]

I am seriously beginning to wonder if my accuracy problems are a result of poorly casted bullets. I purchased them from what I think is a reputable supplier, however upon inspection, half of them were absolute garbage just from visual inspection. I had the same luck with their cast balls. Just garbage.
If the good looking maxi-balls don’t weight the same, that would explain the erratic accuracy. I am also beginning to wonder if I am expecting too much from a 1:48 twist. I’ve seen people say they love the accuracy of their rifles and then post target photos that look exactly like mine. Having owned a fast twist 50 that stacked them into a ragged hole at 100yds, I just think a 6”-8”, or 8-10” group (my best so far) is not up to par. I may need to find some actual TC maxis to test.

You are not expecting too much from 1:48. I too found 3rd party suppliers of maxis to be inconsistent. They were obviously not from T/C molds. I found dings, dents and other deformities from loosly bagged maxis. I decided to buy all the stuff needed to cast my own T/C maxis. Cast up what I hope is a life time supply and sold all the casting stuff. Now they are all uniform, weighed and shoot pretty darn well to excellent.

 

[ElkStalker]

The No Excuses are a good alternative if you don't cast your own. That 420 grn would be about right for your twist. Check out his web site. I'm pretty sure you can get a size sampling pack so you know what best fits your particular bore. One thing to also consider is the type of bullet lube that you use. It really makes a world of difference, To hard of a lube can result in larger groups. I've had great luck with a lube that Idaholewis spoke of. Did you ever try the bullets that I sent to you? They were lubed with said formula. If your rifle didn't shoot those into a 2" or smaller group?? There's something wrong. The only other thing that I could think of is the condition of your bore. Maybe you have to do a deep cleaning to remove a lead build up? Keep after it and you'll find the right combo.

I haven’t been back to the range. I have them sitting here, begging me to go shoot. The weather has been pretty terrible. Today would have been a good day because it isn’t storming, but the boss had other plans for me. It’s 22° though, so I didn’t really throw a fit about it. I will report in when I shoot these. I cleaned the bore several times with lead remover while testing the other bullets. I was having leading issues with the Hornady Great Plains, evident by the big chunks I removed after a 5 shot string. It’s squeaky clean now. I was hopeful to get out next Saturday, but then remembered it’s Christmas Eve, so it may not be until January that I get to go back to the range.

 

[harleysboss]

I agree, a tough time of the year for load testing over there in Ideeho. 22 deg is way to cold

 

[ElkStalker]

I agree, a tough time of the year for load testing over there in Ideeho. 22 deg is way to cold

This a warm day for us lately. We have a nasty storm coming next week with temps in the negatives. I can only imagine that I wouldn’t know if it was the rifle or my shivering that was the problem The bad thing about my area is, right after this storm comes through and dumps snow, we have a few warm days around 40 with freezing rain. That always makes a mess.

 

[chorizo]

@ElkStalker 125 yards is plenty doable also if you can get yourself a gun that will shoot 4" at 100 yards, especially if you get something that carries some weight downrange.

It also got up to a blazing 29 degrees today.....

 

[Christophero]

T/C 370 grain Maxiballs and 355 grain Maxihunters shot fantastic in my T/C 1" in 48" twist T/C barrels. I cast the Maxihunters out of pure. I did find out in testing that 75 grains of fffg is where accuracy fell off. The report was akin to a center fire rifle blast instead of the normal ka-boom. I surmised that the poor grouping was the result of the pure lead stripping out of the shallow rifling.
The pure lead loads wonderfully and holds tight to the powder. The one time I used soft plumbing lead with some tin loading was horrendous, needing to carefully tap the bullet down the bore to seat and fire. I stayed with pure lead and approximately 1,200 fps (65 grains fffg). The 355 grain Maxihunter is perfect for deer, the same as two round balls hitting one behind the other in weight and design. That fine mold was lost in a move, unfortunately. I've since graduated to PRB for deer, though.

If I were to hunt elk with the 50 caliber the T/C 370 Maxiball would be my choice. Better punch through that thick hide and body. I've shot them with Nosler Partitions many years ago and respect the difference an elk is compared to deer.

Hope you get your rifle lined out soon.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Have heard horror stories regarding the quality of inexpensive cast bullets. I've also experienced just how hard it is to produce good quality cast balls/bullets... a better lead furnace is possibly in the future for me. That said, the factory bullets I have seen from T/C have been first rate. I've decided I prefer swaged round balls to cast ones... though I shoot both.

The most accurate projectile I have found for my T/C's with 1:48 twist rates are Hornady XTP bullets in a plastic sabot... though honestly, the difference between the best and the second runner up is minimal. Most probably the deer/elk won't notice the difference.

 

[chorizo]

The most accurate projectile I have found for my T/C's with 1:48 twist rates are Hornady XTP bullets in a plastic sabot... though honestly, the difference between the best and the second runner up is minimal. Most probably the deer/elk won't notice the difference.

We, in the Pacific northwest, cannot use sabots for hunting..pure lead roundballs or pure lead conicals only

 

[chorizo]

I was having leading issues with the Hornady Great Plains, evident by the big chunks I removed after a 5 shot string.

Use an over powder wad and it will decrease your leading problem greatly. Oversize it...54 for 50, 58 for 54

 

[ORBushman]

We, in the Pacific northwest, cannot use sabots for hunting..pure lead roundballs or pure lead conicals only

Yep, same here in Oregon with the .50cal minimum. Gets done all the time, just know your yardage and good shot placement. You should have no issues with that Renegade once you have a load worked up.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

We, in the Pacific northwest, cannot use sabots for hunting..pure lead roundballs or pure lead conicals only

Yeah, I figured. The lawmakers on both coasts seem much more enlightened then us folks who live in Fly Over Country.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Use an over powder wad and it will decrease your leading problem greatly. Oversize it...54 for 50, 58 for 54

Have you noticed any performance improvements with this procedure? I've heard of people using lubed felt wads under conicals for accuracy improvements, but haven't tried it yet. Seems like a good idea though, in theory, as you would have less plasma contact with the base of the projectile.

 

[chorizo]

Yeah, I figured. The lawmakers on both coasts seem much more enlightened then us folks who live in Fly Over Country.

Nahh, we are just as backwards as the rest of you fellers. Hell, I only heard about plastic just last week.

 

[chorizo]

Have you noticed any performance improvements with this procedure? I've heard of people using lubed felt wads under conicals for accuracy improvements, but haven't tried it yet. Seems like a good idea though, in theory, as you would have less plasma contact with the base of the projectile.

Yes, most definitely. I have a thread if you do a search on just that. Dramatic improvement in both accuracy and velocity. Base expansion is more consistent and I believe it greatly reduces the vagarities of gas seepage around the projectile.

Others weighed in with like results

Here it is:

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/wonders-thats-what-a-felt-wad-will-do.152991/
Mind you, I had to change the front sights on all of my guns to shorter fronts as I ran out of "up" on my back sights. The velocity has to be greatly increased. I got a part finally for my MagnaSpeed chronograph and as soon as we get some better "old man" weather, I will get out and chrono all of my guns.

 

[ElkStalker]

Use an over powder wad and it will decrease your leading problem greatly. Oversize it...54 for 50, 58 for 54

I do use a 54 cal lubed overpowder wad. I am inclined to think that the lead may have been caused from loading, not firing. I will have to experiment more and figure that out.

 

[ElkStalker]

Have you noticed any performance improvements with this procedure? I've heard of people using lubed felt wads under conicals for accuracy improvements, but haven't tried it yet. Seems like a good idea though, in theory, as you would have less plasma contact with the base of the projectile.

Over powder wads shrunk my groups better than 50% when shooting the Hornady GP conical and the Maxi-ball. It was dramatic. My 100 target went from 12” groups to 4-5”, just from adding an oversized wad.

 

[stewart.leach]

I have been hunting Colorado mule deer and elk with a TC Renegade kit rifle since the mid-1980's. Put it together like I was building a NM M1A: epoxy bedded metal parts into wood, Parkerized metal parts for corrosion resistance, finished wood with three coats of polyurethane boat deck varnish.

I tried many projectiles in this rifle. By far the most accurate is the Lee Improved Minie bullet, lubricated with three coats of the Lee Liquid Alox goop. Consistent three shot groups of 4" at 100 yards off bags. Most bullets went through and through, or were found under the hide on the off side. Fifty four caliber hole lets a lot of blood out and a lot of air in.

Please ignore my formatting goof above!