repair parts/options early Navy Arms revolvers

[oldguy24]

I have an early Navy Arms G&U 1851 Navy (no date code) in very good + condition, cylinder has light turn mark but no evidence it was ever fired or was shot very little and cleaned well. From what I have been able to find, there may not be any modern parts that will be compatible if it ever needs any replacements. The mainspring seems rather weak compared to more modern versions so guessing it may need replacement. My plan is to shoot this but my concern would be over any part breaking and needing to find a replacement. Any idea/thought I can put in my memory bank for parts/repairs down the road if needed? Thanks

 

[Phil Coffins]

Most of these pistols need a gunsmith to repair them. Just buying a part then installing it has low chance of working well. The 1851 style pistols are still being made and parts can be fitted by a competent gunsmith. That looks like a nice revolver but the bolt is dropping a bit soon as evidence by the marks before the lead in to the locking notches. Also check the main spring screw, if not tight that can make the action seem weak.

 

[oldguy24]

Most of these pistols need a gunsmith to repair them. Just buying a part then installing it has low chance of working well. The 1851 style pistols are still being made and parts can be fitted by a competent gunsmith. That looks like a nice revolver but the bolt is dropping a bit soon as evidence by the marks before the lead in to the locking notches. Also check the main spring screw, if not tight that can make the action seem weak.

Any recommendations of someone?

 

[Phil Coffins]

45D on this site would be one that knows his way around these revolvers and does it for hire.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/members/45d.51373/

 

[Smokerr]

This is for what its worth and unless you send it into an expert per above, the success is hit or miss.

My wife gave me an Ameri San Pao9la 1976 (since gone) NMA some years back she had bought new and shot some. The bolt was not timed right and half cock had it back up and annoying to deal with (partial cock would drop it but prefer the half cock to work right)

Clearly the part of the bolt that indexes on the hammer pin had been filed and in the wrong area (you could see it).

Nothing to be done for it, in the meantime I ordered a Parts kit (Uberti) and the two bolts did not match.

I did a fair amount of sleuthing and what I was seeing was Pietta parts and particularly the bolt looked a lot more like the the ASP (and it turns out the ASP and Pietta have a lot in common heritage wise)

But I had been working on the Uberti bolt and much to my surprise it worked. Mostly it was the bolt end and it had a different shape than the ASP/Pietta.

Once I figured out the Pietta bolt was a better match, I ordered one. It won't work and I can't see the fiddly details inside to see why not.

No one other than a gun smith who works with these could tell you and maybe not even then but the good ones will have the range of experience to know how to fix it.

The older ones went through a range of mgs, places made as they moved around that area of Italy, importers and ..... Nothing stable to say.

Years back my surveyor boss had a new Chevy Suburban that the rear end differential shaft seal started leaking. The local Chevy dealer has a bad reputation. He wanted me to fix it. I told him I would not touch it, anything I did would void his warranty and if the whole rear end went for any reason, he would have to deal with them.

So he took it to his repair shop (I did not do in depth engine or rear ends etc). So, they looked at the Serial Number (VIN now) and ok, this is the XXX seal and took it apart, only to find it was the new ZZZ upgraded seal which they had not seen in that SN range. They did their due diligence, it was well withing the range it should have been fine and it was not.

Where did that leave him? Down for 2 weeks while they searched the country for the new seal. Why would you make spare seals when they are brand new and seals don't fail?

And there in lies the rub, someone can say that this might fit or will fit and it won't. Someone might think it works and does not. You can look at the parts kits and see what is similar and if it fails you can test it (or test before) but its a coin flip and to get it to work if it can you have to file on it.

And a side note, I have a Pietta NMA and the cylinders are longer in it than the ASP NMA. So those do not cross, the ASP cylinder will fit into the Pietta, but there is a big gap at the cone.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I have that same revolver. It’s a fun shooter. Mine was made in 1959-1960.
If it is your intention to shoot it, I would do it. First pop some caps to see if the main spring is strong enough.

 

[Jappo]

This is for what its worth and unless you send it into an expert per above, the success is hit or miss.

My wife gave me an Ameri San Pao9la 1976 (since gone) NMA some years back she had bought new and shot some. The bolt was not timed right and half cock had it back up and annoying to deal with (partial cock would drop it but prefer the half cock to work right)

Clearly the part of the bolt that indexes on the hammer pin had been filed and in the wrong area (you could see it).

Nothing to be done for it, in the meantime I ordered a Parts kit (Uberti) and the two bolts did not match.

I did a fair amount of sleuthing and what I was seeing was Pietta parts and particularly the bolt looked a lot more like the the ASP (and it turns out the ASP and Pietta have a lot in common heritage wise)

But I had been working on the Uberti bolt and much to my surprise it worked. Mostly it was the bolt end and it had a different shape than the ASP/Pietta.

Once I figured out the Pietta bolt was a better match, I ordered one. It won't work and I can't see the fiddly details inside to see why not.

No one other than a gun smith who works with these could tell you and maybe not even then but the good ones will have the range of experience to know how to fix it.

The older ones went through a range of mgs, places made as they moved around that area of Italy, importers and ..... Nothing stable to say.

Years back my surveyor boss had a new Chevy Suburban that the rear end differential shaft seal started leaking. The local Chevy dealer has a bad reputation. He wanted me to fix it. I told him I would not touch it, anything I did would void his warranty and if the whole rear end went for any reason, he would have to deal with them.

So he took it to his repair shop (I did not do in depth engine or rear ends etc). So, they looked at the Serial Number (VIN now) and ok, this is the XXX seal and took it apart, only to find it was the new ZZZ upgraded seal which they had not seen in that SN range. They did their due diligence, it was well withing the range it should have been fine and it was not.

Where did that leave him? Down for 2 weeks while they searched the country for the new seal. Why would you make spare seals when they are brand new and seals don't fail?

And there in lies the rub, someone can say that this might fit or will fit and it won't. Someone might think it works and does not. You can look at the parts kits and see what is similar and if it fails you can test it (or test before) but its a coin flip and to get it to work if it can you have to file on it.

And a side note, I have a Pietta NMA and the cylinders are longer in it than the ASP NMA. So those do not cross, the ASP cylinder will fit into the Pietta, but there is a big gap at the cone.

On your side note. The ASM and Uberti NMA are the same. They fit and work on the Pietta but are shorter and leave a gap. You can fit a Pietta in an Uberti or ASM. But not vice versa. Never had an ASP so I wouldn't know on that.

 

[Smokerr]

And that is where it all gets interesting as who handed what off to whom and its both tangled and uncertain. No one kept track on who did what when and it stopped etc.

Some things you can easily work around (main spring would be one I believe) and others like a hand are such finicky things its a wonder they work at all.

Got my nose rubbed in by the ROA. All good until fired then the timing went off a bit. Not fatal but annoying. Then the rammer went flying somewhere at the gun range and not to be found (we looked on an off for 30 minutes including a range guy and a couple shooters)

The Rammer you can get, other parts no. I figure a good gun guy could fix the ROA but then its shipping to and from as well as the work. Right now I am making do with a wood dowel behind the hammer.

 

[Snooterpup]

This is for what its worth and unless you send it into an expert per above, the success is hit or miss.

My wife gave me an Ameri San Pao9la 1976 (since gone) NMA some years back she had bought new and shot some. The bolt was not timed right and half cock had it back up and annoying to deal with (partial cock would drop it but prefer the half cock to work right)

Clearly the part of the bolt that indexes on the hammer pin had been filed and in the wrong area (you could see it).

Nothing to be done for it, in the meantime I ordered a Parts kit (Uberti) and the two bolts did not match.

I did a fair amount of sleuthing and what I was seeing was Pietta parts and particularly the bolt looked a lot more like the the ASP (and it turns out the ASP and Pietta have a lot in common heritage wise)

But I had been working on the Uberti bolt and much to my surprise it worked. Mostly it was the bolt end and it had a different shape than the ASP/Pietta.

Once I figured out the Pietta bolt was a better match, I ordered one. It won't work and I can't see the fiddly details inside to see why not.

No one other than a gun smith who works with these could tell you and maybe not even then but the good ones will have the range of experience to know how to fix it.

The older ones went through a range of mgs, places made as they moved around that area of Italy, importers and ..... Nothing stable to say.

Years back my surveyor boss had a new Chevy Suburban that the rear end differential shaft seal started leaking. The local Chevy dealer has a bad reputation. He wanted me to fix it. I told him I would not touch it, anything I did would void his warranty and if the whole rear end went for any reason, he would have to deal with them.

So he took it to his repair shop (I did not do in depth engine or rear ends etc). So, they looked at the Serial Number (VIN now) and ok, this is the XXX seal and took it apart, only to find it was the new ZZZ upgraded seal which they had not seen in that SN range. They did their due diligence, it was well withing the range it should have been fine and it was not.

Where did that leave him? Down for 2 weeks while they searched the country for the new seal. Why would you make spare seals when they are brand new and seals don't fail?

And there in lies the rub, someone can say that this might fit or will fit and it won't. Someone might think it works and does not. You can look at the parts kits and see what is similar and if it fails you can test it (or test before) but its a coin flip and to get it to work if it can you have to file on it.

And a side note, I have a Pietta NMA and the cylinders are longer in it than the ASP NMA. So those do not cross, the ASP cylinder will fit into the Pietta, but there is a big gap at the cone.

Try Deer Creek. The have many ASM parts.

 

[M. De Land]

I have an early Navy Arms G&U 1851 Navy (no date code) in very good + condition, cylinder has light turn mark but no evidence it was ever fired or was shot very little and cleaned well. From what I have been able to find, there may not be any modern parts that will be compatible if it ever needs any replacements. The mainspring seems rather weak compared to more modern versions so guessing it may need replacement. My plan is to shoot this but my concern would be over any part breaking and needing to find a replacement. Any idea/thought I can put in my memory bank for parts/repairs down the road if needed? Thanks

Any revolver I have ever owned, worked on or seen will eventually develop a rub line to one degree or another from the bolt nose before the lead in cut (if the model has them), when used a lot.
The only thing that really matters as far a timing is concerned is if the hand tries to turn the cylinder before the bolt is clear the notch and hangs up, the other is if the bolt can fully drop into it at lock up under a tension load. The rest is pretty much academic as far as function goes.
A rub line hurts nothing if the bolt nose is properly dressed smooth and does not gall the cylinder. It actually has a benefit in helping check cylinder inertia into lock up as the bolt drops and slams into the notch wall and window frame wall.
A drag line out of the bolt notch is far more important because it means the cylinder is trying to turn before the bolt is totally clear and this can be from several causes (bolt dome to high, hammer cam issues, bolt finger issues or hand nose to long) but even then most revolvers will still function without issue as the smoothed,radius-ed bolt dome will usually cam over the back top edge of the cylinder notch.
I personally correct all these deficiencies in my own revolvers because it only cost me a little elbow grease and I don't have to shell out cash and send them off and wait.
The factory could easily fine tune these reproduction revolvers just as the originals were at Colt and Remington but then they would cost another $150.00 at a minimum.
Most of the better reproductions come from the factory functioning well enough to work for many decades without being fine tuned for the average consumer but that is really the same story for all modern arms not just reproductions. I've never bought any factory gun, long or short,muzzle loader or cartridge that I can remember not having to make some correction to before being satisfied with their performance.
I view all the percussion revolver reproductions as more or less functioning kits that have all the right stuff to make into fine match guns if wanted but will still work well enough for the average Joe to enjoy as is.

 

[Relic shooter]

I have an early Navy Arms G&U 1851 Navy (no date code) in very good + condition, cylinder has light turn mark but no evidence it was ever fired or was shot very little and cleaned well. From what I have been able to find, there may not be any modern parts that will be compatible if it ever needs any replacements. The mainspring seems rather weak compared to more modern versions so guessing it may need replacement. My plan is to shoot this but my concern would be over any part breaking and needing to find a replacement. Any idea/thought I can put in my memory bank for parts/repairs down the road if needed? Thanks

Uberti internal parts should work but may require some fitting.
Relic shooter