Repaired frizzen doen't spark

[benvenuto]

with unknown steels we were taught start with compressed air quench (only for real exotics), then oil, then brine, then hot water, then room temp water
I have a cracked frizzen too now - just in front of the pivot
the worst bit was finding the bits on my workshop floor *ching*

 

[davy]

Ouch! Thats gotta hurt! :curse:

Davy

 

[Tumblernotch]

Sounds good so far, but I would temper to at least a dark straw. As Rich said, blue is probably too soft. It will make for a tough frizzen, but it probably won't spark consistently. If you want to try that first, go ahead. If it does spark good, you'll have the best of both worlds. But I doubt that it will spark as good as at a straw temper.
:results:

 

[Tumblernotch]

That makes sense. I don't hardly know what kinds of steels I have here. To play it safe, I oil quench most of it. Except for old star drills which I know I can water quench. When it comes to modern lock parts, you can almost bet they're made of a cast steel of some kind, and I just oil quench them and air temper.

When I lose a piece on my shop floor, 82.6% of the time I have to write it off! :crackup: Why am I laughing? :cry:

 

[oldarmy]

Thats how I felt when I watched it fall off the bench. It was in slow motion and then watching the piece just fly up in the air.
I was so mad I could spit. It's a stupid misstake and never should have happened. I was distracted with the vent liner.
What's funny is the floor used to be carpeted, but I took it all out because I kept lossing small screws and pins etc. in it.

 

[Tumblernotch]

What you needed to do was buy one of those 150# pull magnets like they sell at Harbor Freight. Put a string on it and drag it through the carpet. It'll pick up anything in there. I use one to pull chips and swarf out of the rug in front of my lathe. The rug keeps the stuff from sticking to my shoes, but sometimes it gets piled up and I have to get it out of the rug.
::

 

[LRB]

Do as you want, but if you do not temper a frizzen in an oven for at least an hour you are running the risk of it being brittle on the inside. I am not saying it will be, but it is a definite possibiliy.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I reckon it's possible, but when you temper it on a bed of sand over a stove burner, it takes a while. I can't remember how long, but much longer than reheating with a flame. And it seems to be a more even heat as well. As soon as you reach the desired color, you simply remove it from the heat source and let it air cool. I'm sure that a proper tempering furnace would do as well if not better, but most of us don't have one. I suppose that you could use the oven on your stove, but it would be awful hard to see the colors run. On a stove top, you can watch the colors very easily and as soon as you do you can pluck the frizzen off with a pair of pliers and set it aside. It is really handy when tempering smaller parts such as the tumbler, sear and detent.

Using the Siler method or a tempering furnace are, I believe, the best ways because they allow the heat to penetrate the steel more evenly and completely. If a frizzen is too soft in the middle, it'll quit sparking and you will be stuck either re-tempering or half-soling it. Mine is starting to wear thin (still a lot of shots left though) and it still sparks like a house afire. A well regulated furnace would probably produce the best results, but like I said before, I don't have one. I plan someday to get one though!

All I can say is, my frizzens have lasted for years and thousands of shots and so have my tumblers, detents and sears.

:results: :imo:

 

[LRB]

The sand method is much better than simply heating to color, however a furnace is not necessary to temper. Your cooking range oven will cover most common steels. Just know the temperature you want, and use an accurate oven thermometer. Most simple steels Benefit in strength from a triple one hour temper, letting the piece air cool to room temp in between. Something as small as a frizzen should be fine with just an hour. Jim Chambers recommends 375o for a one hour heat for his frizzens, which are 1095 steel, and this treatment seems to work very well. It should also work for any similar steel. Your sand method will probably do as well, but with a good oven thermometer the guess work is removed, except for knowing what steel the frizzen in question is.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I wouldn't be surprised if Jim Chambers uses the same steel as Bud Siler did. I guess a feller could ask him. I'm kinda out of the loop. I've not bought any new locks or lock kits in a long time. I still have some old Siler kits to assemble yet!

I've never used any thermometers for this work, I guess cause I ain't got any. I'm used to using color and maybe I trust it a little more though it's probably less trustworthy. :: Did that make any sense? :hmm:

 

[LRB]

Yeah, it makes since. In the end it's the results that really count. I used to temper my knife blades by color and they tested out very well. Only had one ever come back broke, but considering the mistreatment it was given, for the last many years, I was not surprised. The owner had been using it as a wedge to split hard fat lighter knots by hammering on the back of it for all the time that he owned it. I still felt that it should not have broken and gave him a new blade. As far as themometers go, all you need is a common oven type that you trust. They are only a few dollars, but it is good to buy three and check them against each other, or check them with one of known accuracy.