replacement nipples

[gene mosier]

howdy friends! im kinda new to this typing stuff but i have a question im hoping some one can help me with. i came across an old english double in 11ga. its a cap lock muzzleloader and the locks are engraved with the name Parker. the nipples need replacing for the old ones look like two chicken turds. would anyone happen to know what thread and size they may be? its not possible in my opinion to remove them without drillin them out. your two cents would be appreciated.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Is it possible to drill them out and tap them for some modern nipples? just a thought :v

 

[Dave K]

So far.........all I have ran into on the old guns are somewhat standard thread nipples. Now, saying that though, they are almost all over sized, like a .260x28 thread instead of the standard, .250x28. Some are .265, some are even bigger or smaller. What I am trying to get to though, is I am not totally sure if they were wore to that size or originally made that size. The bottom line is I have had no trouble getting nipples that fit, but they are usually over size. Places like TOW carry the over sized ones and I always keep every size in stock at home just in case I see a gun that is following me home. :grin:

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Howdy!

Dave K has graciously preempted my answer. Be careful in checking out the barrels and their level of pitting.

I recently came across an 11 bore old English double with the locks (and barrels) engraved "Joseph Manton". The nipples had been replaced 9and the gun has shot a lot of international muzzle loading competition. But, after sliding a penlight down the bores, I am not so certain about it as a shooter.

I will eventually try honing and measuring wall thickness as they are .035 or ,036 thousandths now.

Good luck with that!

GM

 

[Dave K]

If you have been shooting it, it has apparently held up well to the loads you are using now. I would consider not honing the bores. Yes, it makes it a little bit of a pain to clean, but all honing is going to do is make the barrels even thinner. I have some guns that have the pits as well and I wish they weren't there, but they are. I just use a brush to help remove the cruds and be a little more careful with my cleaning. All told, it really doesn't take hardly any more time. Just make sure they are safe and go out and have fun.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Actually, safety is the issue for me. .036 is pretty hefty for minimum wall thickness, but it's very hard to tell how deep that pitting is.

I'm not in a hurry over it anyway.

And, thank you for the thoughtful advise.

 

[tealdawg]

Gene as Dave said many times they are over sized, I would soak it down with Kroil, I just dealt with the same thing with an old 20ga fowler. We ended up taking an end mill and cutting it down to the shoulder drilling and using an "easy-out" to remove. If at all possible try and recover the threaded portion so you can mic it. Track of the Wolf has oversized taps and nipples

 

[paulvallandigham]

Pitting at the breech end of the gun should concern you more than any at the muzzle end, where the low pressure loads have dropped the pressure even more. In most guns, the barrels are thinnest at the muzzles.

 

[Billnpatti]

While I have been shooting muzzleloaders for many years, I keep learning something that I didn't know. Having said that, I have never seen a shotgun that had nipples that were not removable. I think what you need to do is to try some penetrating oil on them. I'd put a toothpick in them to plug them and pour some good penetrating oil down the bore and let them sit for a few days to let the oil do its work. Pour out the oil and use a proper fitting nipple wrench to try to break them free. If they start to move, use a rocking motion to get them out, do not just try to turn until they come out or you may break one or both of them off. If that doesn't work, you can try heating the barrels around the breach with a torch to loosen the nipples. You must take extreme care not to heat the barrels too much or you might melt the solder between the barrels. If neither of these work for you, your next move is to take it to a gunsmith. His fees are a lot less than the cost of ruining a good gun. There just comes a time when wisdom says to take it to a gunsmith and quit trying to save a penny only to end up loosing a good bit of money on a ruined gun. :2 :thumbsup:

 

[gene mosier]

thanks a lot fella's for all your info. the gun was given to me as an old relic. the barrels don't look too bad considering its age. i was going to use the locks on an old belgium 10ga but it would ruin the engraving getting the internals to fit. i just thought i would replace the nipples and proof the barrels. if the barrels are no good then i still have a nice stock and a set of locks. www.corsonsbarrels.com have a selection of modern double barrels that i can use as a replacement. as far as the present nipples are concerned, they are rusted gobs with no holes visible. the barrels have ben setting on end,half full of kerosene for a week and none has whetted the outside of the nipples. should i monkey around or just tose the barrels? makes the most sence to try the easy out first?

 

[Dave K]

Well, you play with old guns, you will get these from time to time. I would get them out and go from there. After all, there is a center hole in the nipple, probably,that will get you centered on it. Since I think it is pretty safe to assume it is a 1/4" thread, use an undersize drill and kind of sneak up on the correct size. Many times you will see the nipple threads start to give and you can collapse the old remains of the old nipple and you are then good to go. Chase the old threads with a tap and re-nipple it. Just make sure you have a good snug fit. TOW also has oversize taps, if you need them. I have had very good luck going to places like Harbor Frieght and getting left hand drill bits. They kind of help the nipple "back out" as you are drilling it out. Heck, my favorite percussion shotgun I had to do this to. She rewarded me with a turkey about 2mos. ago.