replacing lock on Pedersoli Kentucky

[Alden]

I should have said that Mrs. C. suggested the same... clearly, some work well, and some don't.

I'd rather get an aftermarket replacement that has a good reputation.

Got any specific suggestions?

No, we've heard that flintlocks are unreliable. Clearly, some types of actions work well, and some don't. We'd rather you get a later-period replacement gun that has a good reputation.

 

[frogwalking]

Hey Mac. In your first post you said you took a fine file to the frizzen. It should have gone "zzinggg" and done nothing to the frizzen. If the frizzen is soft enough to cut with a file, you have found your problem. It needs to be hardened and tempered, or case hardened, depending on the material.

 

[macentyre]

I just wonder if the frizzen Spring is too stiff?

I lightened it to about 2 lbs, as recommended somewhere.

Could you post a photo of the lock on half cock with the frizzen closed?

I'll likely be able to get a picture tomorrow...

sounds like your flint is hitting too square on and needs to be angled downwards.

I've considered that... also, I tried the bit of leather to change the angle, but the clamp has so little space inside, it's difficult to do without losing it's grip.

I also drilled out the touch hole to 1/16" which helped greatly with ignition.

If the pan goes, the rifle fires. That part works well!

Why not source a new frizzen?

That is a good idea!

You mention that you lightened the spring. Could this have affected its ability to create enough force to get a reliable spark?

I lightened the spring as part of fixing this problem. It did not cause it.

suggest contacting the customer service department of where you ordered/bought the rifle.

...er, I bought it used at a gun store that has since gone out of business. However, I have had an email exchange with Pedersoli, and they offered little that I had not already tried.

I've been messing with this rifle for about nine months. I suppose I could just sell it... I have a percussion rifle in 45, and a reliable flinchlock in 50.

I really appreciate the time ya'll have spent considering this problem today. One way or another, I will have a good rifle, and I will know a lot about how to keep it firing!

 

[macentyre]

Hey Mac. In your first post you said you took a fine file to the frizzen. It should have gone "zzinggg" and done nothing to the frizzen.

It did almost nothing. Perhaps it is just the angle of incidence of the flint striking the frizzen, and not the tempering of the frizzen.

 

[Rick Boylan]

I love my Pedersoli Kentucky lock. It fires just about every time. If it doesn't it is because I am firing numerous consecutive shots without paying attention to the flint until it FTF.

What powder are you using? Does the powder ignite in the pan? What flints are you using? What happens to the flints after a few shots? Are they wearing really quickly? I believe there is an answer to your Pedersoli lock and it will probably be simple.

Tap into the knowledge on here and don't get distracted by negative criticism or the real experts will shy away from your post. They are a sweet rifle, problems not withstanding.

I totally agree. I finally had a chance to take my kentucky Pedersoli out and I put about 15 shots down range with no problem. I had to swap out my flint on shot #10 because it got dull. I have a dozen flints I bought from Richard Pierce and they work like a charm. Heck, I didn't even run a spit patch down the barrel until the 10th round and it really didn't even need it then. I love my pedersoli. It was very accurate.

 

[Many Klatch]

There are a number of gunsmiths that can tune a lock. You just mail the lock to them and they work on it. They have tools, equipment and knowledge that you don't have. I had one tuned by Mike Lea and it cost me $125. That turned a closet queen into a regular shooter.

 

[macentyre]

A well known flintlock gunsmith also agrees... a member here sent me his name, and I inquired. Here is his reply.

One of the biggest tricks to making a flint lock work well is for the frizzen to be able to flip out of the way easily. If there is a rough spot on the spring or the point where the frizzen rubs on that spring it can slow it down to the point where the sparks do not land where they are supposed to land, and the edges of the flint gets beat up badly. From what you describe I would check that first.


The spring does not have to be light, but everything has to work slick.

The smae is true with the movement of the hammer and other internal workings.

I have never seen a Pedersoli lock that did not fire properly when it was tuned correctly, and I have not heard of any across the board ignition problems with their locks. Surely if the frizzen were the wrong material or soft they would have hundreds of them out there with this problem (because they make the parts in batches of hundreds), and I have not seen it, so I am betting the lock needs a bit more work.

I will be glad to take a look at it for you if you would like.

I think I will do a little smoothing and polishing, and see what happens.

 

[Alden]

What? But we were told Pedersoli flintlocks are unreliable, some work and some don't, which is why they have such a bad reputation.

Enough time wasted, no!?

 

[macentyre]

What? But we were told Pedersoli flintlocks are unreliable, some work and some don't, which is why they have such a bad reputation.

At any rate, I won't buy another.

Enough time wasted, no!?

Quite the opposite... time well spent! That's why I thanked everyone for their help.

This afternoon, they had a Village Fair at the old Mendenhall house, with a flintlock gunsmith of all things! His flinters all had very smooth frizzens. He agreed that my frizzen likely needs to be faced and tempered, and explained how.

He showed me a Chambers lock that required the same thing.

 

[gunmaker43]

I ran into this same problem with a gun that had an Italian copy of an early flat faced Ketland style lock. The whole thing was just junk inside & out. Chambers sells a "gunsmiths" lock with the plate left un-shaped. I made a template and put that on there--SPARKS aplenty now--5 yr. ago...A thought...Tom

 

[azmntman]

with about any project I get into if a knowledgeable fellow offers to "take a look" I have it boxed and fedexed with 24-48 hrs. I am not a gunsmith and would not feel comfortable working on my lock and would MUCH rather have it as close to perfect as possible VS my screwing with it to get near 1/2 arsed.

 

[macentyre]

...if a knowledgeable fellow offers to "take a look" I have it boxed and fedexed with 24-48 hrs.

I concur... just might do that in this case.

Here are the pictures I promised:

Hammer down:



Half-cock (note that the frizzen is opened slightly because the flint is too long):



Full cock:



Here is the frizzen face:



Here is a new flint after one strike:

 

[Zonie]

About the only thing I see in the photos that doesn't look pretty good is the size of the pan.

The flint (or in this case the cut stone/ceramic) is supposed to get little chips. That's what happens when a brittle object hits a hard one.

The scrapes on the frizzen also look like what I would expect it to look like.

Getting to the shape of the pan, it looks very narrow to me.
That keeps the priming in a very narrow zone which reduces the chance that a hot spark will hit it.

Not knowing how well you can use it, I can't say you should do this, but if it was mine I would get out my Dremel (or cheaper high speed grinding tool from Harbor Freight) and enlarge the size of the powder area in the pan.

I would remove most of the material towards the rear, making sure the ground away material would be covered by the frizzen when it was closed.

The enlarged area would not have to be as deep as the existing pan but it should be at least 1/16" deep. A little deeper would be even better.

With the prime spread out over the enlarged area, the chance of a spark lighting it would greatly improve the reliability of the lock.

 

[Kapow]

Again, I am no expert but compared to mine that flint looks way too long and hitting too high, pushing the frizzen out of the way before the flint gets a chance to drop its sparks downwards.

Can I suggest that you use the right size English flint )5/8 x 1/2) bevel up and pack under the rear to get it to angle down slightly. This will stop the flint hitting square and shattering and also give the sparks a chance to get some downward momentum before that frizzen leaps out of the way.

Is that touch hole coned? It looks like a very big hole to me. Could be the deception of the photo. My Pedersoli doesn't spark as well as my Chambers Siler but it is just as reliable in ignition. Best of luck.

 

[Rusty_Nail]

I agree with Kapow. My Kentucky has a flint that will not touch the pan at half cock.

I found that the ones cut opposite work better. Like the one in this Ped. KY lock. It strikes the frizzen a bit lower, which translates to a better angle. And doesn't touch when at half cock.

 

[nhmoose]

Hey Mac. In your first post you said you took a fine file to the frizzen. It should have gone "zzinggg" and done nothing to the frizzen. If the frizzen is soft enough to cut with a file, you have found your problem. It needs to be hardened and tempered, or case hardened, depending on the material.

Bingo!

 

[nhmoose]

Flint is to long and when fired it should at least be centered or in the powder space of the pan.

If the English flints are that long you have the wrong size for the lock.

Again if you can file the frizen face it is to soft and needs hardening or a piece of hardened stell inserted to the face.

 

[macentyre]

Hey Mac. In your first post you said you took a fine file to the frizzen. It should have gone "zzinggg" and done nothing to the frizzen.

That is what happened. The frizzen may need polishing, but it is not soft.

Regarding flints, the shorter flints that fit better have not done well at all. However, I will work with them again, and find one that will do as you folks have suggested.

 

[Artificer]

A flint that is so long it holds the frizzen even slightly open at half cock was not considered serviceable in the time period nor today. Does the half cock notch on the tumbler look like it has been modified? I'm wondering if the notch chipped and someone re-cut it so it works, but now allows the cock to be too close to the frizzen? If so, you will either need a replacement tumbler or have the tumbler welded, the notch properly shaped and the tumbler re-hardened and tempered.

What is the actual length of the sawn flint you are using and works the best for you now? Also, what are the lengths of the shorter flints you have tried?

Gus

 

[macentyre]

What is the actual length of the sawn flint you are using and works the best for you now? Also, what are the lengths of the shorter flints you have tried?

The sawn flints (glad to know the real name) are 3/4" long, flints that fit well are 5/8". I used the longer flints because they are the only ones I could get to fire three times in a row.

Today I'll get some pictures of the 5/8" flint installed, and see if I can get one to ignite the pan.