Replica Arms

[Zonie]

"...including getting lice..." and the dysentery that killed more men than all of the bullets put together. :grin:

 

[Poor Private]

Isn't it interesting the twists and turns that a forum topic will take. Just like sitting around the kitchen table at home.

 

[Poor Private]

T.C.,
Sorry I didn't atake a closer look at the patterson. The paterson was on a shelf without the box and capper. I wasn't too interested in it since I already have one. And yes a replica capper is dang expensive, I been try to put a cased set together a bit at a time.

 

[mykeal]

I have never personally been 'burnt'. I have had the supreme joy of telling others that they have been.

I understand the motive behind defarbing a gun to cheat someone; it's called greed. I do not understand the motive behind defarbing a gun just to be able to pretend it's something it's not.

 

[44-henry]

I have an 1858 Pietta sitting in my bench vise right now. The gun had been picked up by a friend and was badly abused by the previous owner. Though the gun isn't worth it, it does belong to a good friend with limited means so I agreed to do some work on it. I have agreed to refinish the pistol with a rust blue and color case harden the hammer and trigger using the bone and charcoal process. Since I am going through all this work I could not really see leaving the markings on the barrel since the flats weren't true to begin with. I'll be damned if I am going to file them off and have them put on again. There will be no markings on the outside of the gun when I am finished (and I won't make any attempt to duplicate original marks) and it will be better finished than any other factory made 1858 replica gun available today and probably on par with the originals when it is done. To my friend it will be a nice shooter and something that he can afford to own. If at some point it passes through his hands and winds up with a collector who takes it for an original so be it, that person obviouslly should stick to golf and not be messing around in a field that they don't understand. As far as I am concerned the laws of Darwin apply.

 

[mykeal]

It's nice to know who you can trust.

As I said before:

Giving it the old, 'wink-wink' and describing the seller as stupid or novice, and therefore somehow deserving of being duped, does not excuse the act.

 

[44-henry]

You certainly have a bone to pick, I guess I see your ideas as simlilar to the thought that those who build reproductions of American Longrifles and Hawkens are attempting to commit fraud. I personally hold that that view, and yours, is an a very narrow interpretation of the facts. There simply are not enough originals around to suit everyone and even if there were, using them would further limit their numbers. You have every right to your opinion, but accusing random people of fraud without really understanding their motivations also says something about you and your character.

 

[mykeal]

You continue to misunderstand what I said; I can only conclude that it's intentional. You can't justify your position so you misrepresent your opponent's, changing it to one you can attack.

I have no problem with the Italians making replcias of the CW era, or any other era guns. I have no problem with contemporary US, or other country manufacturers, making replica Hawken, Kentucky, Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Brown Bess or any other long rifles or pistols. As long as they mark their products as their own an don't attempt to market them as true antiques made by their original namesakes, replicas are just fine. I own many.

I say again - please read the following very, very carefully:

Defarbing a replica revolver is, in my opinion, an act of deceit. The reenactors often require it because they somehow want to believe that everything everyone uses in the reenactment is truly authentic hardware. So, they require one to intentionally deface the gun by removing any marks that show it's a replica and then pretending that it's not. In the world of antique collecting this is called fraud, but the reenactors say that the since the intent is not to falsely market the guns, it's ok to do it. As if that's never been done. Again, just my opinion. Perhaps I'm too anal.

It's pretty clear from that my complaint is with those that intentionally remove manufacturer's marks in order to represent the gun as something it isn't. How you infer from that a bias against contemporary manufacturers making replica hardware is a mystery beyond my comprehension.

 

[Poor Private]

Mykeal I think you better look further into the civil war defarbing of a weapon. I don't believe you know what they are attempting too do you are just guessing. As I have stated previously 99.9% are resold as a defarbed weapon not as an authentic. And as you stated you are getting Anal. And the s/n and original nmaker of the weapon are there they are just hidden. such as in the bed of the forestock on a rifle, or under the loading lever on a pistol. Some guys spend upwards of $500 to have a defarbed job. If a manufacturer builds and calls a rifled musket a 53 Enfield shouldn't they be as close to the original as possible? Most of the defarbed ones are making changes to make them as close to original manufacture as possible such as the incorrect bands on some weapons, and a more correct ramrod. Ok if a manufacturer came out with a neon orange 1911. And a customer broght it to you to take off the orange and make it gray whould you? Yes? Opps thats defacing the weapon and would the seller have a fraudulent pistol? because it is gray now instead of orange. I bet when he resells it he don't tell the guy ohh that was all orange- If not you participated in fraud by association.

 

[Peter A Meyer]

Zonie,

What date is a rectangle with AN in it? Thanks,

Pete.

 

[mykeal]

Pete,

AN is 1985.

Here's the decoder ring:

 

[mykeal]

Come on, man. Stop making up stuff and READ WHAT I WROTE. Here again, this time in bold capital letters, so you can't miss it:

my complaint is with those that INTENTIONALLY REMOVE MANUFACTURER'S MARKS IN ORDER TO REPRESENT THE GUN AS SOMETHING IT ISN'T

Is that plain enough? Is there anything about that you don't understand?

Now, please stop misrepresenting what I said.

If the reenactors now truly allow retention of manufacturer's marks under the loading lever I have no issue with that. The ones I encountered in Virginia five years ago said such a gun was still unacceptable at their events. However, some individuals still remove even those marks, whether they're allowed or not.

It's fraud to INTENTIONALLY MISREPRESENT SOMETHING. Why is that so hard to accept? Why do you feel it's necessary to justify the practice?

 

[Peter A Meyer]

Thanks Mykeal, much appreciated.

Pete.

 

[Poor Private]

MyKela,
I am not making stuff up. Read what you wrote yourself.
"Defarbing a replica is, in my opionion, an act of deceit."
It is only deceipt if it is represented as authenic. 3rd time I am saying they are not selling or being represented as authentic.
"In the world of antique collecting this is called fraud".
It is only called fraud if they are being sold as antique or authentic- 99.9% of the time civil war reenactors sell them or represent them as a defarbed weapon.
"Intentionally misrepresenting the item sold is fraud". I agree with this statement if you sell or represent the weapon as "authentic".
"I have never, personally been "burnt'. I have had the Supreme Joy of telling others they have been.
Gee what a wonderful statement: the taking of joy in anothers misery.
"I understand the motive behind defarbing a gun is too cheat someone, it's called greed".
Wow what a jaundiced view. Taking the view that people are only doing it to try to cheat others.when I know hundreds who are not doing that. How many do you know that are trying to cheat some one? 5,6?
This is my last post on this since we are getting nowhere---As G.Gordon Liddy says "we will have to agree that we disagree".

 

[Peter A Meyer]

I don't post often, but wasn't it Winnie that said something like "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it?" (Even if it wasn't him, it sounds like something he would have said!) Wonderful things democracy and freedom of speech, even if you do end up going around in circles chasing each other's tail!

Pete.

 

[mykeal]

Peace.
With honor.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

In California, the altering of certain marks on a firearm and having it in your possession can get you into some hot water.

 

[44-henry]

With all the interesting laws that exist in California that somehow doesn't surprise me.

 

[colmoultrie]

Also the case in several other states, including NJ. Again, no surprise...

 

[gmww]

In California, the altering of certain marks on a firearm and having it in your possession can get you into some hot water.

Depending on what the marks were I think it's safe to say it's going to create problems in most states. Stolen property be it vehicles, computers, guns, etc. have unique serial numbers that would normally be used in the reporting of stolen property.