david johnson
Pilgrim
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How does one check on the reputation of builders in the riflemaking community?
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Reputation of Gunmakers
- Thread starter david johnson
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
So that this isn't deceiving. I am Toni of Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading.
Most people use avenues such as this forum to get info on a builder's product, customer service, and reliability. There are several muzzleloading message boards and most will give you their thoughts on a builder.
You may get a mixture of opinions, but one will be more prevalent than the other. Most people who do this are either individual builders, or like us a small "mom & pop" operation. We depend on doing the best we can and hopefully by word of mouth we can stay in business.
Slash
Most people use avenues such as this forum to get info on a builder's product, customer service, and reliability. There are several muzzleloading message boards and most will give you their thoughts on a builder.
You may get a mixture of opinions, but one will be more prevalent than the other. Most people who do this are either individual builders, or like us a small "mom & pop" operation. We depend on doing the best we can and hopefully by word of mouth we can stay in business.
Slash
arcticap
54 Cal.
There's a number of ways, but using forums like this and either asking past customers or knowledgable others for any available 2nd, or even 3rd hand information might be one way to start.
Or you could ask the builder himself for references, i.e.- a list of previous customers that you could contact.
Or you could even ask other builders for their opinions of the builder in question if they are familiar with his work.
One of the problems about inquiring about reputation is that it doesn't always predict the future or each and every project in the past. It might only show a narrow slice of history, and it can result in information gaps which may or may not be very important to your personal project.
Also, if you ask for information in the wrong place, like a public forum where the builder is a long time member, than some dissatisfied folks might not want to complain because they may not want to create any animosity. But you could always encourage the confidential exchange of information using more private methods to communicate, such as personal threads & messages, home emailing or by phone contact.
Being able to actually meet a builder and view some of his work/workshop in person, or to see enough pictures of his recent work, should help one to form at least a basic opinion.
Or you could ask the builder himself for references, i.e.- a list of previous customers that you could contact.
Or you could even ask other builders for their opinions of the builder in question if they are familiar with his work.
One of the problems about inquiring about reputation is that it doesn't always predict the future or each and every project in the past. It might only show a narrow slice of history, and it can result in information gaps which may or may not be very important to your personal project.
Also, if you ask for information in the wrong place, like a public forum where the builder is a long time member, than some dissatisfied folks might not want to complain because they may not want to create any animosity. But you could always encourage the confidential exchange of information using more private methods to communicate, such as personal threads & messages, home emailing or by phone contact.
Being able to actually meet a builder and view some of his work/workshop in person, or to see enough pictures of his recent work, should help one to form at least a basic opinion.
If you are interested in any historical aspects of a makers product then it is best to do your homework and learn as much as you can about the guns they are making so you can communicate on somewhat equal footing, the old what is and isn't correct if that is an issue in your choice of gun. I have had some very well known builders attempt a mild snow job on authenticity untill backed into a corner with facts and source data, if a well made gun with quailty parts is all you want the hunt will be much easier for a suitable builder.
B.Habermehl
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2004
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- 766
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All of us gun builders literally live or die by word of mouth. I myself have never advertised and have enough orders to keep myself out of trouble. Good pictures of the fellows work is also a decent starting place. Followed closely by a barrel maker's referal. A fellow's customers are usually the best salesmen. One well done job usually begats three. Hope this helps. BJH
It also helps to have a clear understanding of what you want before you talk to any maker IMO. Builders tend to specialize in certain things don't they? Don't want to mention names, but I know builders who will make nothing but a Lancaster or Reading,and others who make nothing but Southern Rifles.
I have seen some very good advice here and in paticular the suggestion that one should learn as much as possible about the old guns.Some vendors do,as TG has said, offer less than correct guns and others offer what reenactors want whether correct or not.You must do your own reasearch and read as much as possible about the particular gun in which you are interested.Just because a vendor is large and well known doesn't insure accuracy in its products. Tennessee mountain rifles with Siler locks and French Fusils with Germanic Jaeger locks have long been a sore point with me and other sticklers for historical accuracy but they are still being offered often with numerous inaccurate claims of the historical authenticity of such guns.There are message boards with knowleagable people and books on most old guns in which you might be interested.I see queries made almost daily on the several boards on which I participate asking questions about guns and their builders.A Caveat,however; the historical accuracy of various guns is objective but the question as to the relative merits of individual builders is a very subjective evaluation and will vary from person to person.There is a lot of truth in the old adage,"You get what you pay for"and you should remember this when considering individual builders.The average cost in parts will generally run around $500.00 exclusive of the stock which if made from scratch will run about $200.00 for a total of about $700.00.In addition there is the cost of labor so that $1500.00 to $2500.00 is not an unusual price for a custom built gun with some or many of the bells and whistles.The use of precarved stocks can lessen the cost but I think you get my point.One writer here stated that he gets his orders through word of mouth which means that he has satisfied customers and that is a good point.
I wish you well in your quest here and again do the research and learn about what type of gun turns you on and then go for it!
Tom Patton
I wish you well in your quest here and again do the research and learn about what type of gun turns you on and then go for it!
Tom Patton
Mike Brooks
Cannon
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Another important thing to do is if you are looking for a particular style of gun, go to the maker that specializes in that style.
For instance, I build a wide variety of guns, but all early flint stuff with an antiqued finish. I would be the last person in the world I would contact for a hawken rifle in like new finish. And, the biggest point that Tom already pointed out, "you get what you pay for". If the price is too good to be true it is. generally the custom gun field is not an area where you want to find the cheapest price if you want any kind of quality at all.
Also, for the most part, any gunmaker that doesn't have a waiting list of a year or better I'd stay away from, as there is a reason why he doesn't have business.
For instance, I build a wide variety of guns, but all early flint stuff with an antiqued finish. I would be the last person in the world I would contact for a hawken rifle in like new finish. And, the biggest point that Tom already pointed out, "you get what you pay for". If the price is too good to be true it is. generally the custom gun field is not an area where you want to find the cheapest price if you want any kind of quality at all.
Also, for the most part, any gunmaker that doesn't have a waiting list of a year or better I'd stay away from, as there is a reason why he doesn't have business.
Doc Arroyo
Greybeard
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- Apr 6, 2004
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- 976
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These folks have given you good advise. Now My 2 cents.
Pick a builder that you can communicate with! Some folks don't work well with others. Nearly every sour story that I have heard stemmed from the customer and the builder not understanding each other. "I want an early style Hawken" means fullstock flint to some, and a certain style trigger guard on a percussion half stock to others. Make sure you are speaking the same language, especially if your ordering a gun long distance! (And distance ain't always the problem. I know of one case where the builder and customer are in the same town, and after two years the customer is still bad mouthing the builder over a miscommunication.)
Good luck and shoot safe!
Pick a builder that you can communicate with! Some folks don't work well with others. Nearly every sour story that I have heard stemmed from the customer and the builder not understanding each other. "I want an early style Hawken" means fullstock flint to some, and a certain style trigger guard on a percussion half stock to others. Make sure you are speaking the same language, especially if your ordering a gun long distance! (And distance ain't always the problem. I know of one case where the builder and customer are in the same town, and after two years the customer is still bad mouthing the builder over a miscommunication.)
Good luck and shoot safe!
